Thread: Motor help - 10HP

Ian

I may have misunderstood his post (#58). From that I thought he does have 32a, but you may be right in that is not enough. I can'r recall what we have incoming here and I am literally just heading off to Mexico.

It does have to be sufficient.

Regards
Paul

Paul

32A is apparently the transformer that feeds everyone.

Even to run the house normal the sparky said i would need to upgrade my mains. Mains from roof connection to meter may only be cloth insulated. Not sure if he meant to replace this section or right back to the pole

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Dave

If your house has the early style of wiring that looks a bit like cloth (I have been trying to remember it's name, but it escapes me. I think it goes by initials) you should consider having it replaced before you do anything else at all.

When it was installed probably 60+ years ago it was quite safe, but it becomes brittle with age and if it is disturbed the insulation can flake off leaving bare conductors. Not very desireable at all and a likely cause of house fires or electrocution for the unsuspecting person rummaging around in the roof space.

It is my own belief (conjecture) that those people electrocuted while installing insulation were victims of this situation. They inadvertently gave the wiring a knock and then laid down aluminium foil on top of bare wires. "One flash and you're ash" is the phrase we use at work.

Added to that it is very likely that your old wiring will not be up to modern household electrical loads let alone your monster woodworking machinery. If you get the wiring replaced, which you absolutely should do if it is the old wire, take the opportunity to upgrade the capacity so when you are in a position to hook up a few beasts you can do it easily.

Regards
Paul

Thanks Paul

Most of if not all the house has been rewired from the board to the points and fittings etc. I believe it is just from the roof connection to the board thathas this old wire. I plan to have the switch board moved ar some point before the house is lived in and will have that last section rewired along with any other work that may be required.

Thx

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Dave, I know you got this old lady dreaming about thicknessing 24" wide timber.... but:
In reality, you are much more likely to only ever put 12" or less boards through there.
That means a 4 or 5Hp motor will probably be a very good compromise. Now if you get a 3-phase motor that size, the options are starting to look a lot brighter.
THe VFD for that size is much cheaper, the wiring is much cheaper and using a VFD, it can be set to do soft starts only. That way your neighbopurs will never know - except from the noise.
That also probably leaves you enough power for a 2 or 3 HP dusty to deal with the chips (from the smaller timber). You also gain the advantage that once the middle of your blades is worn, you still have a sharp foot either side
Looking forward to how this works out for you.
PS: I have a fully enclosed fan cooled modern 240/415V 3-phase 5Hp 4kW motor we could talk about changing owners....
Suitable VFD: 4000W 5HP 240V 16A Single Three Phase Variable Frequency Drive Inverter VFD | eBay

Joe that sounds like a very good compromise. In the unusual event of something wider which would be very rare i imagine even with a smaller motor I could get away with just 1/2 mm at a time?

Yes Id be interested in talking about the VFD as well particularly if you are not in a hurry to part with it.

Regards

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Dave, I think Joe was offering a 5hp motor and suggesting you pair it with a VFD you could buy from the link.

Thx Dale

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Dave,

Are you still in Horsham? Just asking because the network upgrades policies of different supply authorities can be different and researching the street upgrade can help decide (at least for the long term plan).

Best way is to ring Powercor (they manage the network in that area). Their website has a handy dandy section involving upgrades:

https://www.powercor.com.au/our-serv...lies-powercor/

which would be worth reading. I'd gather that your property would probably be rural.

Reading their materials, it looks like you'd be required to at least part fund the extension, but it'd be worth a phone call to powercor to ask how much it would be for a 63A supply (which should power the beast). DC is going to eat most of the rest of that, with the change going to the VFD inefficiency losses.

If your neighbour is upgrading, be aware that depending on the policy of the network owner, they normally have 7 years in which they can claim the pro-rated cost of the upgrade if you decide to take advantage of it. That is, if they upgraded the street to 3ph 100A per phase, and you use 25A on all 3 phases, then they get 25% of the cost, which is then depreciated depending on where in the 7 years you've applied. The power company that I work for used to have the issue that a new transformer would go in on one blokes farm and everyone around would put a note on their fridge to put in the application 7 years from then, at which time he'd get nothing and they'd all get the three phase they'd always wanted for free. Nowadays it's pretty much the same, but the date of the 7 years has changed somewhat, so you're liable to catch out the jerks who used to rely on the 7 years and 1 day rule.

If you have to fund network upgrades, you'll be talking 10's of $1000, because by the sounds of things, it'll be new transformer and OH wires to your house.

How big is your property? Would it be big enough to put some serious solar on the roof or the grounds? A number of people in your situation are finding that off-grid solutions can come in at comparable costs to the upgrade, plus you don't pay for the power after that (battery maintenance does have to be watched though). You could even undersize the panels and use a battery system to provide the necessary storage, although with this setup I'd consider using a VFD on the machine as a soft starter, as most inverters only have a 150% overload rating, not the 600% required to run a chunky motor. Also means you aren't stuck upgrading the network for someone else's benefit, but this is still tens of thousands of pesos away.

The smaller motor is probably the way to go for now. Single phase is fine for 5hp, anywhere up to 7.5hp is findable, but starts to get expensive. They also make an almighty dip in the lights whenever you start the machine, which your neighbours may complain about, which could lead to an ultimatum from the power company.

After typing all of this, I noticed a page before where you put a bunch of photos up. One of them had the transformer in it, but I couldn't read the side of it, where it will likely have a number spraypainted on it, which should be the rating of the transformer. That'll help work out how much you can suck out of it.

If you could take a closer shot in good light, I can probably also tell you if it is a split phase (2 phase) or single phase unit. That'll give you an idea of whether or not you're sharing the rating of the transformer or if you have a winding each.

When the time comes to upgrade, the 22kV feeder being right outside your house is going to help, as you do have 3phase in your street, which save in poles and wires - a pretty significant cost saving there.

Themage21

Some great info there.

The property is 3000 m 2

Would be very interested in the potential of solar.

At this time I have a 5hp motor to put on the thicknesser and yet to get a VFD to run it.

3ph is the ultimate.

Im working in Sydney atm but when i get back home I will try for a close up of the transformer.

Thanks

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art