Thread: Who is the real L.S.Barker ?

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Originally Posted by DSEL74

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Could be this company?

History

cheers,

camo

Originally Posted by Uncle Al

J.Blackwood & Son have been in business for about 130 years, selling engineering supplies and steel. I'm pretty sure they were Sydney based, and were the direct opposition to McPhersons especially in the Sydney market.
I have all of the old Blackwoods catalogues stashed away somewhere, but I believe the McPhersons catalogues had a much more comprehensive section on machine tools.

As I type this, I also recall a company called Austral Engineering Supplies, who also sold quite a large range of woodworking equipment. They are now based at Ermington in Sydney, but have no involvement in woodworking equipment these days. Their range these days are in the steam valves and pressure gauge equipment areas.

A.E Herbert were also involved in woodworking equipment. Again, i believe I have an old catalogue somewhere, and I also have an old A.E Herbert table saw under a tarp, used occasionally for fire wood cutting.

Another opposition company to McPhersons in the engineering supplies field was Scruttons, who were in Mascot for many years before they moved to Lidcombe. They sold metal working lathes etc, not sure about woodworking machinery. I'd have to uncover my old Scruttons catalogues to check.

Hope this is of interest.

Alan...

Edited - Added Scruttons information.

Hi Al,
Nice to see some new blood in the discussion.
Blackwoods is still in operation but almost impossible to deal with.
You'd also remember Demco who were on Cleveland Street and Paul's in the city.
Another catalogue I have is Goodall,Melbourne based I think.
I have an Austral catalogue(they were Wadkin agents in NSW)with a Kent St Sydney address and a M2195 phone number.
Jack Thompson who was their sales manager is still alive and kicking and is a mine of information.
He had a large collection of Wadkin service books etc but loaned them to aclass machinery and never saw them again?
I had a 12 inch Herbert jointer a few years ago,heavy bit of kit.
H.

Originally Posted by hiroller

McPherson ads featuring Macson-Barker Woodworking Machinery start appearing in the Sydney Morning Herald in Nov 1944. This was before he died, so there must have been some relationship between LS and McPherson.

Hiroller, I have a feeling Barker was at least making Bandsaw's for McPhersons in the very early 1940's.
I have a 1940's (unsure of exact dating) McPhersons woodworking machinery catalogue that shows an early barker Bandsaw, and thicknesser.
Also a Macson shaper and other Macson machines, basically the ones I believe barker did not have in their range or line up.
there are some Macson/Barker machinery as well showing the transition between the two.





Melbourne Matty.

Originally Posted by L.S.Barker1970

Hiroller, I have a feeling Barker was at least making Bandsaw's for McPhersons in the very early 1940's. I have a 1940's (unsure of exact dating) McPhersons woodworking machinery catalogue that shows an early barker Bandsaw, and thicknesser. Also a Macson shaper and other Macson machines, basically the ones I believe barker did not have in their range or line up. there are some Macson/Barker machinery as well showing the transition between the two.

Some things today need to be drastically re-thought.
My bandsaw *still* has that motor on it.
68ish years later.
Paul

Originally Posted by clear out

Hi Al,
Nice to see some new blood in the discussion.
Blackwoods is still in operation but almost impossible to deal with.
You'd also remember Demco who were on Cleveland Street and Paul's in the city.
Another catalogue I have is Goodall,Melbourne based I think.
I have an Austral catalogue(they were Wadkin agents in NSW)with a Kent St Sydney address and a M2195 phone number.
Jack Thompson who was their sales manager is still alive and kicking and is a mine of information.
He had a large collection of Wadkin service books etc but loaned them to aclass machinery and never saw them again?
I had a 12 inch Herbert jointer a few years ago,heavy bit of kit.
H.

Hi Clear Out
The old memory bank has been working overtime lately, recalling companies that I had dealings with over the years.
Paul's Hardware were an interesting company, with two shops in Sydney's CBD, and a factory at Bankstown which I visited occassionaly. They made the Paulcall range of tools, including table saws, planers, G clamps, screwdrivers, pipe clamp heads amongst other items. I knew the management team fairly well, mainly because I spent more than a small fortune with them (Other peoples money, fortunately).

Blackwoods were not specifically into woodworking machinery, but had most of the other bits and pieces. Many people say that they were expensive and difficult to deal with, but their main focus was on industrial accounts. They tried smaller stores in suburbia, but they just didn't compete with the smaller suppliers who focused on customer service at the counter. I dealt with Blackwoods for over 40 years, and spent a large fortune with them, and I know my pricing was extremely competitive.

I think I also have a Goodall catalogue somewhere, and driving past Demco's premises was always a joy.

This whole thread has made fascinating reading, especially the detective work of finding old company records and genealogical data.
Thank you to all that have contributed.

Alan...

Hi All,

Well I am home and now have access to a PC again, but don't have a lot of time today, so I thought I would start with Lot's Will. Below are some pictures of the original Will that Lot Sydney Forbes Barker submitted on the 18th May 1948 (just 7 months prior to his death). Given the family notice of his death states "died suddenly", I wonder if he was aware of his coming death (through illness) or he had just made the will as part of an intention to change over to a company (or perhaps for none of these reasons).

original will 1.jpgOriginal will 2.jpgOriginal will 3.jpg

So what is to be learned by looking at the will that we did not already know? Well firstly his son's full name is Lee Sydney Barker, secondly we confirm that Lee is a son and not a daughter, and thirdly that when the will was written Lee was less than 21 years old (otherwise there would be no need to have the clause relating to executor and trustee). I have not had a chance to search for a Lee Sydney Barker in the BDM and to be honest BDM don't seem to like me, because the searches I did on Lot didn't seem to work as well as hirollers searches.

Well no more time today (unless I can sneak in some more time later tonight, but no promises), so please stay tuned for the next episode, when I will post the paperwork relating to his probate, including the assets of the estate (very exciting stuff to be seen in these documents with lots of answers and a bit of a twist that brings into question, when was the company first registered....suspense music....ending credits).

Cheers,

Cameron

Originally Posted by camoz

Well no more time today (unless I can sneak in some more time later tonight, but no promises), so please stay tuned for the next episode, when I will post the paperwork relating to his probate, including the assets of the estate (very exciting stuff to be seen in these documents with lots of answers and a bit of a twist that brings into question, when was the company first registered....suspense music....ending credits).

Cheers,

Cameron

Tease Cam, you're worse than a mini series...


Melbourne Matty.

Now that camo has struck a rich vein with the family information, I thought I might add a small side bar of information to the thread. I'm personally interested in the stories of the machines themselves, who used them, what did they do, where did they end up? I guess the story of the box making factory in Mt Gambier (see page 2 of this thread), which even got a visit from L.S. Barker himself, was a good start.
With very few ads in the newspapers for LS Barker (i.e none), it is hard to track down the target market.
Though one reason for the lack of ads might that Trove (Home - Trove) has only scanned The Argus of the Melbourne papers, so doesn't include The Age or the Herald Sun (and versions).
Google has image scans of The Age but very little OCR scanning so it is difficult to find anything.

The only ad of note was for an Auction of Stevenson's Furniture Factory, which appeared in Perth newspapers in late March 1937. The image is below but I'll include the text here as there is some nice kit listed:

STEVENSON'S FURNITURE FACTORY,
IMPROVEMENTS AND FIXTURES,
Situate WELLMAN-STREET,PERTH, between Robinson-avenue and Forbes-road (off William street).

MR. JOSEPH CHARLES, acting under instructions from the Mortgagee, will SUBMIT to PUBLIC AUCTION,
At Three o'Clock,
ON WEDNESDAY, the 31st Day of MARCH. 1937,
At THE BUILDERS' EXCHANGE,
Commercial Union Chambers. St. George's-ter., PERTH,
THE UNDERMENTIONED PROPERTY: -
LAND: Portion of Perth suburban lot 28, being Lot 15 on plan 613, the subject of certificate of title volume 169, folio 13, and portion of Perth suburban Lot 28, being Lots 13 and 14 on plan 613, the subject of certificate of title volume 683, folio 64, together with a right of carriage way on the several roads and streets delineated and coloured brown on the said plan, and together with the buildings, improvements and fixtures thereon.
The land has a frontage of 195 links (128ft. 8in.) to Wellman-street by a depth of 175.5 links (115ft. 6in.).

IMPROVEMENTS.-Erected on the property is a well-built furniture factory, having three sides of brick weather side, G.I., with G.I roof. The dimensions are approximately 62ft. x 115ft., with cement and jarrah floor office, together with a maller brick factory, with iron roof, approxi- mately 45ft. x 30ft.

The undermentioned FIXTURES are also erected on the property above described and will be included in the sale:
(1) 15in. MacPherson Buzzer with counter-shaft and 2.7 h.p. Motor and Belting, together with boring attachment.
(2) 24in. Macson Thicknesser, with countershaft and 6 h.p. Motor, Belting and Table.
(3) 32in. Bandsaw with Belting and 2.7 h.p. Motor.
(4) Spindle Moulder, with countershaft and 2.7 h.p. Motor and Belting.
(5) 32in. Ripping Saw with Belting and Saw and 6 h.p. Motor.
(6) Sanding Machine with Belting and 2.9 h.p. Motor, with Fan attached.
(7) Dovetailing Machine, complete with Motor.
(8) L. S. Barker Dimension Saw, with 3 h.p. Motor.
(9) Fibre Teasing Machine, with Belt and 2.7 h.p. Motor.
Inspection Arranged.

For further particulars, JOSEPH CHARLES, West Australian Chambers, St. George's-terrace, Perth; or VILLENEUVE SMITH and KEALL, Solicitors, Barrack street, Perth.

That's a sizeable company being sold off, so I thought them worth a look and maybe a bit more insight into the companies who bought L.S. Barker kit.

Looks like Stevenson's Furniture Factory appeared on the scene around 1923. The principal, T.J.F. Stevenson was formerly at Foy and Gibsons, the large departments store chain (most of which was eventually bought out by David Jones), who would also have been manufacturing furniture at the time.

There are a bunch of other classified ads that appear over the next decade. I've included a few for examples. It seems they were creative with their marketing. Spend over $49 and get a free 3 piece lounge suite!

Stevenson's also get a mention as a commendable exhibit at the Royal Perth Show in 1931.

Unfortunately, the factory burnt down in an accidental fire in Jan 1935. It must have been some fire, with damage of over 3000 pounds. The fire was reported in nearly every paper across Australia. Not all of the stock and equipment was covered by insurance. There is a very sad photo of a burnt bandsaw.
It also gains a mention again when someone was injured while demolishing the building a year later.
The company started trading again but only two years later was in receivership with the factory and contents being sold off. A sad end after over 14 years of trade. Hopefully an interesting sidebar.

Originally Posted by hiroller

Now that camo has struck a rich vein with the family information, I thought I might add a small side bar of information to the thread. I'm personally interested in the stories of the machines themselves, who used them, what did they do, where did they end up? I guess the story of the box making factory in Mt Gambier (see page 2 of this thread), which even got a visit from L.S. Barker himself, was a good start.
With very few ads in the newspapers for LS Barker (i.e none), it is hard to track down the target market.
Though one reason for the lack of ads might that Trove (Home - Trove) has only scanned The Argus of the Melbourne papers, so doesn't include The Age or the Herald Sun (and versions).
Google has image scans of The Age but very little OCR scanning so it is difficult to find anything.

The only ad of note was for an Auction of Stevenson's Furniture Factory, which appeared in Perth newspapers in late March 1937. The image is below but I'll include the text here as there is some nice kit listed:

STEVENSON'S FURNITURE FACTORY,
IMPROVEMENTS AND FIXTURES,
Situate WELLMAN-STREET,PERTH, between Robinson-avenue and Forbes-road (off William street).

MR. JOSEPH CHARLES, acting under instructions from the Mortgagee, will SUBMIT to PUBLIC AUCTION,
At Three o'Clock,
ON WEDNESDAY, the 31st Day of MARCH. 1937,
At THE BUILDERS' EXCHANGE,
Commercial Union Chambers. St. George's-ter., PERTH,
THE UNDERMENTIONED PROPERTY: -
LAND: Portion of Perth suburban lot 28, being Lot 15 on plan 613, the subject of certificate of title volume 169, folio 13, and portion of Perth suburban Lot 28, being Lots 13 and 14 on plan 613, the subject of certificate of title volume 683, folio 64, together with a right of carriage way on the several roads and streets delineated and coloured brown on the said plan, and together with the buildings, improvements and fixtures thereon.
The land has a frontage of 195 links (128ft. 8in.) to Wellman-street by a depth of 175.5 links (115ft. 6in.).

IMPROVEMENTS.-Erected on the property is a well-built furniture factory, having three sides of brick weather side, G.I., with G.I roof. The dimensions are approximately 62ft. x 115ft., with cement and jarrah floor office, together with a maller brick factory, with iron roof, approxi- mately 45ft. x 30ft.

The undermentioned FIXTURES are also erected on the property above described and will be included in the sale:
(1) 15in. MacPherson Buzzer with counter-shaft and 2.7 h.p. Motor and Belting, together with boring attachment.
(2) 24in. Macson Thicknesser, with countershaft and 6 h.p. Motor, Belting and Table.
(3) 32in. Bandsaw with Belting and 2.7 h.p. Motor.
(4) Spindle Moulder, with countershaft and 2.7 h.p. Motor and Belting.
(5) 32in. Ripping Saw with Belting and Saw and 6 h.p. Motor.
(6) Sanding Machine with Belting and 2.9 h.p. Motor, with Fan attached.
(7) Dovetailing Machine, complete with Motor.
(8) L. S. Barker Dimension Saw, with 3 h.p. Motor.
(9) Fibre Teasing Machine, with Belt and 2.7 h.p. Motor.
Inspection Arranged.

For further particulars, JOSEPH CHARLES, West Australian Chambers, St. George's-terrace, Perth; or VILLENEUVE SMITH and KEALL, Solicitors, Barrack street, Perth.

That's a sizeable company being sold off, so I thought them worth a look and maybe a bit more insight into the companies who bought L.S. Barker kit.

Looks like Stevenson's Furniture Factory appeared on the scene around 1923. The principal, T.J.F. Stevenson was formerly at Foy and Gibsons, the large departments store chain (most of which was eventually bought out by David Jones), who would also have been manufacturing furniture at the time.

There are a bunch of other classified ads that appear over the next decade. I've included a few for examples. It seems they were creative with their marketing. Spend over $49 and get a free 3 piece lounge suite!

Stevenson's also get a mention as a commendable exhibit at the Royal Perth Show in 1931.

Unfortunately, the factory burnt down in an accidental fire in Jan 1935. It must have been some fire, with damage of over 3000 pounds. The fire was reported in nearly every paper across Australia. Not all of the stock and equipment was covered by insurance. There is a very sad photo of a burnt bandsaw.
It also gains a mention again when someone was injured while demolishing the building a year later.
The company started trading again but only two years later was in receivership with the factory and contents being sold off. A sad end after over 14 years of trade. Hopefully an interesting sidebar.

An awesome sidebar, really bringing things to life.

Cheers,

Camo

I wonder if there would be more related ads in "Blue Collar" newspapers like the Weekly Times????

Hi all,

A bit more information just to keep Matty happy.

Have a little more time on the PC, so I thought I would list Lot's probate papers, which give some insight as to his total worth at the time, but also lists some details on his house and the two business premises that he owned and leasing to L.S. Barker Pty Ltd (so at the time of his death L.S. Barker was operating out of the Collie and Willis street addresses). It also shows that he had sold shares in the company to his son Lee Sydney Barker, suggesting he would play a part in the companies future after Lot's death (more on that later, and possibly a new character from overseas may join the cast, but that is for the next episode when the company records of L.S. Barker Pty Ltd are revealed).



probate1.jpg

Firstly the will, which is a copy of the one already posted, but as it is part of the probate this just confirms that this was his last will

probate3.jpgprobate4.jpgprobate5.jpg

probate6.jpgprobate2.jpg

probate11.jpgprobate10.jpg

probate8.jpgprobate16.jpgprobate12.jpgprobate15.jpg


According to state records L.S. Barker Pty Ltd did not officially exist until 09/09/1948 after Lots death, however liabilities, in the inventory section of the probate clearly state that Lee Barker had 7500 shares in the company and under assets it shows that the two business buildings were under lease to L.S. Barker Pty Ltd.

My suspicions would be that perhaps some shuffling of assets were performed after Lot's death, but prior to the finalisation of probate, although I guess it is equally likely that Lot was in the process of forming the company before his sudden death.

Below is the Inventory records which show the detail, interestingly the sizes of the buildings are also listed. I guess given some further investigation given that the records show the Title Volume and Folio Numbers, it would be possible to obtain the plans for the building on the site, which might give some further insight as to what each building was used for.

probate7.jpgprobate17.jpgprobate14.jpgprobate9.jpg



probate13.jpgprobate18.jpg

Well guys not much of a write up. To be honest I have not had too much of a chance to fully review all the detail in these documents, hence my attempt to buy time (as at the time I was literally taking photos as I didn't have time to read), so feel free to add any insight that I have missed.

Cheers,

Camo

Nice work camo. Looking forward to the write-up!
I found Lee Sydney on the electoral rolls. I'm not sure of his DOB but he would be at least 80 if still alive.
Lee Sydney Barker - Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980 - Ancestry.com.au

Originally Posted by DSEL74

I wonder if there would be more related ads in "Blue Collar" newspapers like the Weekly Times????

There may well be, but once again, these are not digitised (yet).
There are copies of every Vic newspaper (plus more) in the Vic State Library on microfiche but you would basically have to manually view the images on site. Long and tedious work, though potentially rich in detail!
Even with digital scanning, the OCR struggles with the blotchy cheap printing of old newspapers.
For example Barker might have scanned as Parker if the printing was poor.
I haven't yet exhausted truncated scans through Trove looking for OCR variations but I don't think I'm going to find much.
From what I can see, L.S. Barker kit was purchased by big shops with well backed owners.
Matty considers these as the best examples of Australian manufacturing, so I'm guessing they weren't cheap.
The 2 examples of sales from the period that I can find were in SA and WA and there is nothing in the papers from Adelaide or Perth, which are available through Trove.

I'm guessing that most of this stuff was sold through catalogues and direct sales.
The big name catalogues are McPhersons and Blackwoods but there were many others. Maybe there is one out there full of Barker stuff pre-McPhersons.
There are some great cataloge examples available online at the Vic State Library for download including McPhersons and Danks and Son. There is some serious tool envy reading those!

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