Thread: A saw score...

Did some more research; apparently what I thought was “M” pattern toothing was wrong and the teeth on the Disston are modestly called “Great American” teeth.

Chief

I have never sharpened one of those saws, but this might be of some assistence:

How to sharpen Great American pattern crosscut saws - Bing video



A couple of pix for you to show the handle. They were large ugly things suited to using all four fingers in a gloved hand in cold weather.

Disston one man saw (2).jpgDisstone one man great American pattern 1914 (2).PNG

Regards
Paul

Chief

Another pic to illustrate the difference in teeth. The lower saw has raker teeth. Your saw does not. All teeth should be bevel filed. Disston make reference to a special file, but I don't know what it is.

Disston great American and No.1.jpg

Regards
Paul

Similar saw, they even refer to the previous model No. 373, but this is a No.524

Disston No.524 Great American.PNG

Regards
Paul

Disston in one of their Lumberman publications explain that the bevel on the tooth should not extend down into the gullet:

Filing a logging crosscut tooth p1.PNGsharpening a logging crosscut tooth p2.PNG

Regards
Paul

That’s some excellent research Paul, thank you. Last night I found THIS article on Crosscutsawyer.com which makes specific mention of the special file used, it is an elongated teardrop shape. I’ve found a 10” file on E-bay but I think I need an 8”; more research required on my part here. Worst case is that I would have to use my plethora of Groberts to replicate the effect of using a teardrop shape.

There was also THIS thread on UKworkshop.com, it references a 1946 publication by Charles Haywood where the tooth pattern is referred to as “Lightning”, rather than Great American and a search under that description led me to THIS article by the Lost Art Press, it’s the same info but condensed into one article.

All of the articles seem to agree that all edges of the teeth should be bevelled to give a slicing cut, and as it was designed for cutting green wood they should have the teeth set “full”, which I interpret as meaning the kerf will be three times the thickness of the saw plate. I wonder though... if l had TWO I’d try filing one of them with no bevel on the long edges just to see if it would replicate raker teeth... I did find reference to this at some point but now I’ve lost it.

Going by your pictures I’m pretty sure the blade is from a Disston 524 as it only has three saw nuts; I agree the handle is not what you would call pretty in the traditional sense but on the plus side it does makes it simpler to replicate. It’s a pity the auxiliary handle is missing but I should be able to cobble something together.

Once again, thanks Paul!

Paul,

some good proper information in that script, thanks

Graham

Paul,

the bloke in that video does not know any thing about
how to properly sharpen a G A tooth pattern saw.

Graham

Chief Tiff,

the three references you show are all excellent and proper instructions for sharpening your G A saw.

please do not follow the advice of the bloke in the first video, he does not know what he's talking about.

Good luck, hope you can knock up the handles okay, they aren't anything too fancy.

Hope to see some progress and finished photos,

Graham.

Originally Posted by macg

Paul,

the bloke in that video does not know any thing about
how to properly sharpen a G A tooth pattern saw.

Graham

Graham

I did not watch it fully: My mistake. Chief Tiff's second link post # 676349 seems to reflect the Disston instructions.

UKworkshop.co.uk Sharpening Great American Tooth pattern saw : Hand Tools - UKworkshop.co.uk

The parts that I picked up on from various sources are that the gullets should be dropped down with a round file. A chainsaw file of suitable diameter might work depending on the diameter of the gullet. Only one edge of the tooth should be filed at a time unlike our handsaws and only the top edge (possibly only really halfway down the tooth) hence the need for a tear drop file. A knife file might also work as that I think has a similar taper. I would only be setting the top third of the tooth (somebody said half the tooth).

Regards
Paul

The degree of set required depends on the use. Hardwood, softwood, green or dry. My inclination would be to begin wth small amonts and increase if neccessary. Removing set is more dificult and can result in broken teeth. A light dressing along the sides of the teeth with a smooth file or an oil stone will remove a slight over set.

Often there is a hole just ahead of the handle so the helper handle can be attached there for one man use. However that is only seen in the first illustration I copied.

Regards
Paul

Well, today I had a bit of luck! I went for a crawl through the bowels of the Guild toolroom and right at the back of the shelf where the saws had been flung was a plastic bag containing three handles; a busted up one from one of Tassie-toothed saws, a half-finished replacement for the same, and the original handle for the Disston. However...

71CC78C7-31AB-4EC6-9DA1-0888AC527AD3.jpg

Busted with a very poor PVA glue-up; and then someone had decided to cut out a chunk.

216E2C43-87BA-4129-AD48-5725DB688DB6.jpg

So, I removed all the old glue (the pictures above were actually taken after this point) including running a saw down the slit for the plate as that was also full of congealed PVA. Then I dressed up a piece of quarter-sawn American white oak to make a replacement.

5B85F65F-A4A5-47AB-8002-601F0BFEB6F0.jpg 732B40D9-68F1-45F3-A3D2-200534C9B45E.jpeg

... and that is as far as I got today unfortunately. Tomorrow I’m away back at work till the 11th of next month so the whole thing has been temporarily shelved but my plan is as follows:
1) Refine the handle shape as per the images Paul had provided and if I can find anything online as well.
2) Accurately mark out and drill the holes using the sawplate as a guide, including counterboring for the medallion and split nuts.
3) Carefully cut the slit for the plate on our big 20” resaw bandsaw. In the last but one photo you can see that I’d inserted my centering rule into the slit, you may also notice that the rule is at 90 degrees to one edge of the timber. This is to allow the blank to be presented to the bandsaw and the slit cut as accurately as I can.
4) Shape the handle to match the original as closely as possible.
5) Finish cleaning up the saw plate and then attempt to joint, sharpen and set (if reqd) the teeth.

I have an idea for the auxiliary handle that can be quickly swapped from front to back with no tools needed. This plate does have both holes drilled but the one at the handle end was been slightly elongated thus indicating it was mainly only used by a single person for most of its life. Getting back to the main handle; if it was designed to accommodate a gloved hand then American lumberjacks must have had teeny lickle handsies; I don’t believe my mitts are oversized but I could only just squeeze four fingers in. Maybe there is some truth in The Lumberjack Song?

Graham & Paul, thanks for the endorsement of the online articles. I had also already found “that” video when I was searching under “M” pattern tooth sharpening and I agree; I don’t think he really knew much about crosscut saws in general and definitely not the GAT ones. Perhaps he should have made queries on an online forum first...

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Tomorrow I’m away back at work till the 11th of next month so the whole thing has been temporarily shelved but my plan is as follows:
1) Refine the handle shape as per the images Paul had provided and if I can find anything online as well.
2) Accurately mark out and drill the holes using the sawplate as a guide, including counterboring for the medallion and split nuts.
3) Carefully cut the slit for the plate on our big 20” resaw bandsaw. In the last but one photo you can see that I’d inserted my centering rule into the slit, you may also notice that the rule is at 90 degrees to one edge of the timber. This is to allow the blank to be presented to the bandsaw and the slit cut as accurately as I can.
4) Shape the handle to match the original as closely as possible.
5) Finish cleaning up the saw plate and then attempt to joint, sharpen and set (if reqd) the teeth.

I have an idea for the auxiliary handle that can be quickly swapped from front to back with no tools needed. This plate does have both holes drilled but the one at the handle end was been slightly elongated thus indicating it was mainly only used by a single person for most of its life. Getting back to the main handle; if it was designed to accommodate a gloved hand then American lumberjacks must have had teeny lickle handsies; I don’t believe my mitts are oversized but I could only just squeeze four fingers in. Maybe there is some truth in The Lumberjack Song?

Graham & Paul, thanks for the endorsement of the online articles. I had also already found “that” video when I was searching under “M” pattern tooth sharpening and I agree; I don’t think he really knew much about crosscut saws in general and definitely not the GAT ones. Perhaps he should have made queries on an online forum first...

Chief

That is very good news that you have found a pattern and, if that is the correct medallion which is quite likely, it dates the saw 1917-1940.

Don't be tempted to refine the shape until you have cut the slit for the plate and then drilled the holes for the saw screws. The hand hole being small is a bonus. That is how it should be.

Regards
Paul

Just to clarify; when I say “refine the handle shape” I'm only referring to the rough outline drawn on the timber; apart from the obvious missing bit there are several dings and chunks missing from the extremities that need to be restored. I don’t intend to change the shape in any form, and the drilling and slitting activities will be undertaken before any part of the shape is cut out.