Thread: Stenner ABM Table Saw Restoration

To prevent my post being renamed to “how the hell do I get this motor apart”, I have decided I needed to spend some time doing what I like most (turning rusty cast iron into shinny cast iron).

Today I decided to tackle the sliding cast iron table top. Below is a picture of the table top half cleaned, and then one completed, basically followed the same approach as I did with the Wadkin BGP (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f163/just-purchased-wadkin-table-saw-53-a-149296/), but this time started with using the razor blade approach (something I picked up from reading one of Jack’s posts). Razor Blade/WD40 under a 3M scourer using an orbital sander. It still needs to be polished, but I am not going to get too caried away until after the painting process.

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After I did this I sat down and had a bit of a read of the Australia Woodsmith that arrived yesterday, what should be on page 19 "Cup brushes make quick work of cleaning rust off large surfaces like cast-iron table saw tops". Has anyone tried this process before (it's basically a fine wire brush used in a hand held drill)? I have always got too scared to use anything as aggressive as this, but now I have read it, I am wondering if it might work, they had a picture and it does not look to have scratched the cast iron in any way.

Also because I couldn’t help myself (I just had to know what was inside), this is a sneak peak of the inside of the gearbox for the blade tilt.

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Something tells me that this is not how the oil is supposed to look, anyone able to give some advice on what to replace it with, will normal engine oil do the trick?

And just to give an example of the overkill of this table saw, this is the mounting bracket for the riving knife with a $2 coin to show scale of the thickness.

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Seeing this makes me confident that my riving knife should be secure.

Lastly I also promised to take some photos of some of the welding on the table saw:

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Thanks,
Camoz

Hi Camoz,
I have used a wire wheel or cup brush in a small angle grinder, works a treat on cast iron bench tops.
Been thinking about your broken hand wheels and I think you have a few options.
An internet search yields a number of suppliers that have a great range some very similar in looks to the original Stenner item with three supports.
Our supplier down this way would be Blackwoods but I could not find a catalog at work, but I did see this online for example....
WDS 8179 Hand wheel - Pilot Hole, Metal Handwheels - WDS

The second is a little more work and entails making your own pattern, easily turned up on a wood-lathe and the three center supports cut out in the middle, if you have a local non ferrous foundry they should be able to cast something up for you using the pattern, or you may be able to find one handle at a second hand machinery joint or swap meet etc, and have one more cast.

What you are doing so far looks great Camoz, keep it coming !!

Melbourne Matty.

Hey Matty,

Now that I know from someone that has used the wire wheel, I think I might give it a go on the main table top (I think I will be a bit careful what direction it is spinning in when I get close to the edges around the mitre slots, I would hate to see a section of cast chip away).

I also have been thinking a lot about the hand wheels, since you posted about it previously. I have gone to a couple of scrap metal yards to see what might be available, but I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about finding one and copying it, I think I am going to have to be very lucky to find two identical wheels that are also of a similar style to the original. I have also been checking out the internet and found http://www.tea.net.au/ProductCategor...did=151&cid=44, but have not yet got as far as getting a quote. After reading "No quadrant? No problem!" No quadrant? No problem! « www.owwm.net, I also considered the idea of using a foundry, but to be honest, I wasn't sure if that was something that would still be an option in Australia. I do think the idea of being able to tell people that I turned the wheels on my lathe and then had them poured would be great, perhaps I could add my name in raised letters.

Today I decided to try to work on getting the tilt adjusting gearbox out, my initial idea was to remove the handle shaft (this would mean removing the pin that holds the gear to the shaft), but given that everything is functioning correctly I decided to leave the whole gearbox intact and just keep turning it until the trunnion reaches the point where it completely unscrews. I used the engine hoist again to support the trunnion assembly as I would need to lift the assembly to nearly horizontal to completely unscrew it (definitely too heavy to support manually and I could only imagine the damage that it would cause if I could not hold it).

Below are some photos (the gearbox is now ready to be removed and cleaned out ready for new oil).

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After thinking a bit more about the oil in the gearbox, I am now fairly sure that what I replace it with will need to be fairly thick so that the gears remain lubricated as the blade is tilted (the idea seems to be to fill it to a point so that it doesn't spill as the gearbox tilts to accommodate the tilting of the blade, and the top gear is lubricated from what is dragged up by the other gear as it passes through the oil).

Thanks,

Camoz

Hi, I like the thread keep up the good work. One thing though, is it possible to load your pics a bit bigger? With regard to the cup brush I have found the ones that are made from brass wire good but the big ones that fit onto a grinder with stiff steel wires too aggressive for tables, great for removeing rust and crud on painted parts. I have recently finished a wadkin PK not a patch on Jacks but good enough for me.
wadkin PK restoration : General Woodworking - UKworkshop.co.uk
Mark

Hi Mark,

Small world, I was actually looking at your post just yesterday, I am about to remove the blade rise and fall gearbox, which from the outside looks to be similar to the PK, and your pictures are great!

I really like the format of your post with the pictures, but I only know of two ways to list the pictures in this forum (this post outlines how I have listed them using the first option https://www.woodworkforums.com/f40/po...ur-post-78761/). I haven't been reducing the size of the photos before uploading as a figured that way at least I can ensure I am listing the largest possible photo.

From my end the post does not show the pictures (just "P####.jpg") and it isn't until you click on this that the photo shows up in a new Browser Tab, but this photo takes up the entire screen.

Am I doing something wrong? I would hate to think I was taking the time to try and get these photos uploaded only to find that everyone is looking at a tiny photo that doesn't show any detail.

Thanks,

Camoz

Hi camoz ... looking very fine man.

Under "Quick Links" near top of the screen, go to Edit Options, and you can tick "Display Images" about halfway down.

This is a screen shot of what I see - thumbnails that click open to full pictures.

Took m a while to twig that ... even longer to find out I could list the new posts in subscribed threads and receive email notification of new posts.

Cheers,
Paul

Ok now I feel really stupid (lucky no one has been watching me clicking on every link after posting, to make sure I have posted the right pictures).

Well today was a good day. I ended up admitting that I did not have the experience or tools to tackle getting that front bearing off the motor (or my wife may have convinced me). So I took it to the motor rewind guy and left it with him. He rang me this afternoon and he has managed to get the bearing off, he admitted he was a bit stumped himself for a while (which made me feel better). It turns out the rotor and everything did need to come off. The shaft has been turned down from a larger piece of stock so the front bearing rests up against the shoulder of the thicker section of the shaft.

While I was waiting for him to call I tackled a bit more of the teardown. The tilt gearbox took a bit more work to get off the table saw than I initially thought (this was due to 2 locator pins in addition to the 4 bolts holding it on).

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I have turned the gearbox upside down to drain as much oil as I can.

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A picture of the 1.7kg Brass pivot point for the threaded tilt adjuster.
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And the height adjuster nut (also solid brass), I will have to shine them up (unfortunately no one will ever see them once the table goes back on)

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The height adjuster has a dust guard over the top held on by 3 screws (I get the feeling it is not very affective though, as when I first took the cover off it was stuffed full of sawdust).

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Opened up the gearbox

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And removed the collet from the underside and lifted the larger gear out.

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I need to clean things out a bit to work out how the gearbox case comes off the trunnion (I am thinking I will probably need to remove a pin from the shaft holding the other gear in place and slide the shaft out, before removing the gearbox case as I think the case actually surrounds the shaft). If this is what is required, I am undecided at this stage if I will do this, or just clean things up with it attached.

This gearbox seems to have the same oil as the tilt gearbox. I actually expected to find grease not oil, after seeing Marks post on the UK forum with the PK rise and fall gearbox packed with grease.

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Spoke to the technical section at Penrite today, to try to get some advice on what oil to use. They recommended a “Gear Oil 85w140”. I might try to get some tomorrow; I figure the old oil will probably need to be flushed out with something anyway. I was going to try using a hair dryer to heat up the old oil a bit to see if I can get more of it out of the tilt gearbox (I would like to use some sort of solvent, but I am a bit worried there might be some sort of seal below the main gear, and I would like to try to avoid taking this gearbox apart).

I added a post to the UKWorkshop website hoping I might find someone in England with some photos, or even a manual ( I know I'm dreaming) http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/restoration-of-a-stenner-abm-18-table-saw-t63800.html, no one has posted anything yet about the history of the saw, but I will keep my fingers crossed.

Cheers,
Camoz

Hi all,

Just got a posting on the UKWorkshop suggesting that scrit would be my best lead. The response suggested that Jack communicates with him weekly he sighted this post:

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Re: scrit
by tool613 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:08 am

Scrit is helping us on the vintage machinery site with all the UK manufactures and will be loading his great wealth of information into the archives. He is doing well and I have regular email conversion with him on a weekly basis. I believe(not that he has said this) his wish is to be privet as the forums go. I will say he is the best on UK machines knowledge you will ever come across. We are proud to have him as part of the UK historian team. The man is a genius.

jack
English machines
tool613

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Jack if you see this can you confirm if this is true (normally I am a fairly trusting person, but there seems to be a lot of mystery surrounding scrit and I have been unable to find this post through searching). If it is do you know if this archive will include anything on Stenner.

Thanks,

Camo

G'day Camo
Was snooping through a local scrap metal dealers yard recently (as you do) and noticed some old gate valves off 8 to 12 inch water pipe that had metal hand wheels. Might be worth a look if you have a scrap yard in your area.
Tony

Scrit is the best there is-that is with out question. We (Scrit Matty myself) have done some work on the Stenner's range of shop machines and found very little.
Matty is the only one who has found a catalog cut. This cut is not form a Stenner publication and i do not believe i have seen one surface.

If you wish to help with the history on Stenner i would try contacting Stenner to see what information they have. I have not not had luck with this but have not been persistent.

STENNER LTD | Sawmill and wood processing machinery

BTW
I am loving the work you are doing here. This range of machines is very rare.I just love how Stenner used Bronze in there machines. The saw looks like a real winner. As to the hand wheels i would try a Rim shop that mills solid aluminum rims for bikes on CNC and have hand cranks made up there.

jack
English machines

snip
. As to the hand wheels i would try a Rim shop that mills solid aluminum rims for bikes on CNC and have hand cranks made up there.
snip

I am a bikie and I think their gear might be outside the scale - 700's would give you a hell of a leverage --- BUT racing go-carts use much smaller rims and their are lots of go to places for custom made

Worth a look

Neil


jack
English machines[/QUOTE]

Hey all,

Definitely thinking about those hand wheels, so thanks for the advice, I have already sourced some quotes on buying the readymade wheels (and they are not cheap), so I am definitely up for any suggestions on alternatives.

I am also finding it a bit hard to determine the original size of the wheels. I have done some calculations based on the drawings that Matty provided (basically measuring the wheels and referring them back to something else on the machine), I seem to be coming up with something around 36cm, which doesn't sound right to me.

I have managed to get some great information today from Stenner Ltd. which I will post next.

Also a big thanks to those who helped with information on the motor bearing both in this forum and the Ukworkshop forum. I now have the motor fully back together and running very smoothly (I have some photos of the insides pulled apart after cleaning which I will share later), I ended up deciding to have the entire internals cleaned and baked. This was somewhat a necessity due to the fact that some idiot had pumped way too much grease into the motor, which ended up all through the windings, (obviously in an attempt to fix the front bearing problem). As a result there was a very low resistance reading between the motor and the casing. The good news is it now reads infinity and should be good to go for another 55 years.

I think I have also determined what needs to go into the gearboxes. It is a product called Semi Fluid Grease or different names depending on the company. The next step is finding a local source in quantities less than 20kg.

Cheers,

Camoz

Well I am like a kid in a candy shop. Today I received a reply from the Managing Director of Stenner Ltd. I asked him last week if he may be able to help with some information and given that he is obviously a very busy man, I am more than pleased with the information he has been able to provide.

Firstly I now have a date for my machine. My table saw was sent to Australia in 1957, that in my opinion is amazing to find out, at best I was hoping to discover what years this model was manufactured (I was beginning to think even that was not going to be possible), but to find out the actual year my saw was made, makes me very happy.

The guys at Stenner have also been nice enough to scan a copy of a leaflet produced in 1955, which shows some of the equipment available at the time, including my table saw.

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Jack if you drop in on this post, I might also have a little present for you. Check out the 5th page I think you might find something that looks familiar.

They were also nice enough to summarise a bit of a history of the company which is as follows:



Stenner began in the late 19th century as an agricultural business making implement for the local farmers.

The first recorded instance of saw making was in 1875 when a circular saw bench was made. At that time the business was owned by the Stenner family, later it became Messrs Stenner and Gunn Ltd when another local engineer joined the business.

Mr Gunn then left to create Messrs Gunn Bros. at a workshop in Castle Street in Tiverton.

The company was, up to then, building circular saw machinery, in the early part of the 20th century the first bandsaw was produced, this was a great advance on circular saws as they offered much smaller kerfs and so improved the yield from logs. Early machines had spoked pulleys and were exclusively hand fed, this made sawmilling a very strenuous job.

The company continued as Stenners of Tiverton Ltd.

At around that time, just before the second world war, the company was bought by Messrs Heathcoat and Co Ltd and formed part of the Heathcoat engineering division.

After the war several engineers joined the company having spent the war years on engineering research and development, this enabled Stenner to implement many of the new technologies developed during the war in the fields of hydraulics, pneumatics, electrics and electronics to become world leaders in the manufacture of sawmilling machinery.

The name was changed to Stenner of Tiverton Ltd. In the 1960’s.

In the late 1980’s the industry was contracting due to the importation of foreign machinery and Stenner was the subject of a management buy-out and became Stenner Ltd.

In 2009 as a result of the economic recession the company went into administration and after negotiations with the administrators the company was purchased by a group of investors comprising some of the directors, a major component supplier and our major UK distributor.

The company continues to use the name Stenner Ltd.



Again I would really like to thank the guys at Stenner Ltd. for taking the time to help me with this information. I have spent many hours on the computer trying to find information and there just isn’t anything available.
Cheers,

Camoz

Just in case someone can't open the PDF file, this is the catalogue as .jpg files


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Cheers,

Camoz