Thread: Stenner ABM Table Saw Restoration

I have been a bit slow on the restoration at the moment (promise to get some more posted next week). In the meantime here are some more old documents, the second page under an advert. by J.J. Smith seems to show some second hand machinery available (including a Stenner A.B.M. 18" dimension saw & 72" extension). It is from the "Timber Trades Journal" 5th October 1968. Some other advertisements by Stenner, which seems to suggest that by this stage they were definitely focusing on the Bandsaw/Resaw side of the business. Also a lot of other machinery listed including some prices for some second hand machines.

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A big thanks goes to the University of Minnesota, for taking the time to scan for me some sections of their copy of the "Timber Trades Journal" once again another group willing to help me with some history (they even went beyond what I had asked, and scanned some other items of interest from different journals).

I thought I would post the lot as a lot of other machines are also listed (which might help someone else trying to date their machine).

Cheers,

Camoz

P.S. I have these items in pdf format, but I couldn't get it to upload. The text is a bit hard to read if you just click on it, but if you click on it and then zoom in once it's in its own window it seems to be big enough to read. If anyone for any reason would like it in the pdf format, send me a PM with your email address and I will email it to you.

Hi all,

Sorry for the lack of posts, I have actually progressed a fair bit, but wanted to post everything up to priming in one go.

Well after the many great suggestions about the missing hand wheels, I eventually decided that I wanted to try to find some existing ones (try to save something else from being scrapped).

I have now visited over 8 scrap yards and 3 second hand machinery places, with flyers asking them to look out for suitable handles. Three scrap yards stated they cannot sell back to the public, two told me if only you had been here the other week , but unfortunately none have called back (I get the feeling it probably has more to do with them losing my flyer than not getting anything in). The guys at the second hand machinery places just laughed (they said that when they get them, they keep them as machines always come in missing handles).

After just about giving up, yesterday while picking up a Wadkin EQ I just purchased (more on that in the future, I must stay focussed on the Stenner first, I am like a kid in a candy store right now), I decided to ask the guy if he happened to have any handles floating around, and waited for the laugh. To my surprise he said yes, in fact I had a choice of hand wheels .

I opted for the following two.

Before Cleaning

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After Cleaning:

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They cost me $80 (for both) after some negotiating. I think he was happy, but I was absolutely stoked, it’s probably cost me nearly $80 in fuel just looking around, and these aren’t some cheap cast hand wheels, they ding when you hit them and they are heavy for their size, they are the same design, they are big (one is 250mm diameter and the other one is 300mm), and best of all they have a 1 inch bore (exactly what I needed, so no machining necessary).

I know they are not both the same size, but to be honest I actually prefer it this way, I think they look better on the machine as two different sizes.

So I guess the moral to the story, is if you are looking for something, don’t give up and be patient.

Cheers
Camoz

Wonderful Camoz, Just wonderful !!
Now your well on your way !

Melbourne Matty

Camoz those handles look great, keep up the work. Since I finished my PK I've been itching to find something else to play with.
Mark

Hi all,

Well Mark thanks for the well-deserved boot up the bum, (even if it wasn’t intentional). I have been recovering from some surgery I had shortly after my last post, and have spent far too long wallowing in my own self pity. Your post reminded me it has been far too long since I worked on the table saw, and Jacks post today of his PK appearing in the FWW was another good boost to the motivation.

With the motor now fully operational, I needed to take the tilting assembly off to get the base ready for painting. I removed the two bolts and livered the plate off from the two locating pins (a lesson I learned when removing the gearbox for the tilt adjustment, the pins were hidden under the paint, which made things very confusing for some time).

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Using the engine host I removed the tilting mechanism (still far too heavy to do safely without hydraulics).

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I decided to completely dismantle the blade rise/fall gearbox, as I would need to clean behind for painting and clean up the shaft which had some surface rust. The gear was held to the shaft with a tapered pin.

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As you can see no care had been taken around this machine, paint was cracked and chipped all over it (and not due to failure due to age, just mistreatment).

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Removed the surface rust from the sections of the base that won't be painted, prior to taping. Little confused as to the purpose of the etched "X" marks in the rails that the tilting assembly sits on? I can only guess the idea was as a place for the lubrication to pool (not sure if it was a factory idea or etched at some later stage).


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The base now has a couple of coats of primer on it, and I am very happy with how it has come up so far, especially after looking at the before photos. The surface required a lot of prep work, and I have definitely decided I am not going to take up a career in panel beating.

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Drying time between coats gave me a chance to have a bit of a go at cleaning up the fence using the wire wheel on the bench grinder. The fence itself needs a bit more work to get it nice and shiny, but fortunately there is no pitting and only slight damage from them pushing the fence into the blade (cowboys!).

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The fence support is really good (the photo makes it look like it is pitted, but it is actually just the machining marks.

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A nice surprise was the stamped angle markings (which were totally covered by the surface rust).

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All the nuts and bolts cleaned up using the wire wheel, ready to be given a polish.

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Cheers,

Camo

Wow I need a lie down after listing all those photos...lol

man that thing is built

are the numer on the fence roof pitch?
keep up the great work you doing great Camo.

jack
English machines

Originally Posted by jgforsberg

man that thing is built

are the numer on the fence roof pitch?
keep up the great work you doing great Camo.

jack
English machines

Jack,

Thanks for the comment. The numbers are the degrees of angle of the fence, with marks starting at 45 degrees, going up to 90 degrees in 5 degree increments, with a half line for the 5 degree amounts. The 65 and 75 half lines are gone, so I will probably try to add them back in, not sure yet on the best way of doing it, I think I will need to scratch them on, originally it looks like it was stamped on, but I would be too scared I might crack the casting (at least they are just lines, all the numbers are still visible).

Cheers,

Camo

Its amazeing how a coat of paint lifts the spirits on a restoration. How are you planning on polishing the handles and bright work. I found a stiff mop worked well with a block of pollishing compound. I have my eyes on a MF chain morticer that I'm hinting on for santa claus to bring me.
Mark

Well today I tackled the raised lettering on the tilting arbor. Having not dealt with raised lettering before, I was a bit concerned about the possible outcome, but I figured all it would take is patience and a steady hand (I have none of these so I knew I was stuffed).

As I was never good at art, I decided to use the mask and spray method. I found the process to have a bit more to it than you might first imagine, so I thought I would share my process, and things I discovered, and perhaps others might like to give input and suggestions on how to do things better next time.

Firstly I used the blue masking tape (the one designed to prevent bleeding on the edge and to leave no residue). To be honest I have always used this style of tape, so I can’t really comment on possible outcomes by saving a few bucks on tape, except that I have heard plenty of stories of it all going horribly wrong, to realise it’s just worth the extra money (well that’s my opinion anyway, feel free to give your success stories of using the normal masking tape if you have any).

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Tips that I have found works when masking for intricate areas:

• Take your time (the better you mask off, the better the result).

• When going into tight areas, more pieces is best, you can use one piece and go around the corners by bunching up the outer edge, but when it gets to really small tight areas I use the scissors and lots of small pieces to prevent squared off curves. One thing to note to make pealing easier is to lay down one full strip first close to the edge, and then the smaller pieces on top to get in tight (this way when removing the tape you lift the long piece and all the small pieces should lift with it, or at least the edges of the small pieces). I have only done it the other way once, and it was a nightmare.

• I use a fine screw driver and a pair of tweezes to position the pieces correctly before pushing the area with a thumb or finger to make sure it is stuck down.

• I go around the edges with a small screw driver at the end to ensure the edge of the tape is fully down to prevent bleeding.

Of cause I had to choose two colours just to make things a bit harder for myself. I was concerned about leaving the tape on for too long, as with other projects I have found that there will always be some bleeding (especially if the cast is not perfectly flat) so I decided I needed to paint both colours at the same time. I painted the yellow and then used a piece of cardboard to shield the yellow as I sprayed the red. I had some bleeding of the red into the yellow, so I had a cotton bud ready to clean up any areas and a fine paintbrush to apply more of the correct colour.

• Sand after masking and then check the edges again

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I removed the tape at about ¾ touch dry stage, this gave me time to clean off any bleeding (I used a cotton bud dipped in mineral turps, and then wiped off on a cloth to remove most of the turps). This also worked to clean up any hard corners on the curves. Once I had cleaned off the excess, I used the fine artist brush to add paint to any areas that needed correcting.

The finished result:

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It’s not perfect, but I am happy with the results (especially as it was a first attempt).
Well I hope I didn’t go on too much, but although I have not painted raised lettering before, I have done a fair amount of masking and painting, and the above still applies (especially when you are trying to paint around a label etc, that you can’t take off). I thought it might help to share some of the lessons I have learned through trial and error.
If I have done something that you would not do, or if you know of any easier ways (except using a brush, I have tried it, and I have destroyed the evidence so no one could ever prove how bad I am at painting by hand), please feel free to share your trade secrets.

Cheers,

Camo

P.S. Most of the base parts of the table saw are now drying (I like to give them a long time to cure before I start bolting things back together), so hopefully soon I should be able to share some photos of the base components together.

P.P.S. Sorry about the quality of the pictures, I used my iPhone to take the pictures instead of the digital camera

Mighty fine work. I restored a little Sagar saw bench and when it came to the raised lettering I sprayed the whole lot with lots of coats and then painted the background by hand, it was much easier than trying to paint the raised lettering by hand.


Mark

Hi all,

I have reached my next hurdle (which fortunately I knew was coming). The sliding table has 12 bearings mounted on off center shafts (so that you can rotate the shafts and remove any slack in the sliding table). The sliding table rests on 6 x 88503's (Diameter: 40mm, Bore: 17mm, Outer Ring Diameter: 12mm, Double extended inner race diameter: 16.6mm), there are 2 metal flat-bar sections (obviously designed to be replaced if ware occurs), which are held out by a further 6 bearings (three on each side) these bearings are 88016 (Diameter: 35mm, Bore: 16mm, Outer Ring Diameter: 11mm, Double extended inner race diameter: 14.4mm).

Of the 6 88016's none are salvageable (and so I am glad that they broke off the locking pin for the sliding table, as it probably prevented them from mashing the rails or bearing shafts). I think 4 of the 6 88503's are also fine (on the other two the seals have definitely been compromised as they don't spin freely).

My question relates to trying to save some money. I have determined that the 88503 has the same dimensions as the 6203 without the wider inner racer (they are 12mm inner and outer width), and the 88016 is effectively the 6202 (with the 16mm bore) again without the wider inner racer. The other difference is a very significant difference in price (and these are readily available bearings).

I have considered the idea of using a washer type arrangement to space the bearings so the outer racer would still be in the correct location (making sure the washer only makes contact with the inner racer), although looking at the way the bearings ride, I am not even sure the washers are essential (except for the 88016's as I would need to space them to match the same height so that the flat-bar sits in the center of the bearings).

I am wondering if their might be some other special reason that the double extended inner race type bearings were used (eg. better lateral strength, or they are a stronger bearing).

If no one has any suggestions, I will probably at this stage try the cheaper option (as I think it is worth the risk, I have been quoted about $35 per 88503 versus about $7 for the 6203).

Another question I have is which is the better bearing for this situation, ZZ or 2RS. As I understand it the 2RS has a superior seal to the ZZ, but has a higher roll resistance (which I don't think would matter for this slow moving purpose, and I was thinking the seal of the 2RS might help given its location near sawdust).

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and if anyone can suggest a bearing place Sydney to Newcastle that is likely to be the most competitive on price, I would definitely be interested.

Thanks,

Camo

Saw this technique on Shane Whitlocks web site. Haven't tried it but it will be the first method I try when I get to that stage.
Painting Raised Letters
For those of you who haven't found his work yet, he has some fantastic restorations that are worth a few minutes to browse through.

Tony

Hi all,
Camo it is so good to see this rebuild and others on this forum that are carried out to such a great degree of detail it is very inspiring and I hope to do a good job on my morticer and lathe. You are going to have yourself one hell of a saw there and back in all it's glory. I have just tried a disk on my angle grinder for the removal of paint and rust it is made by Josco, stripit disk it is a very course synthetic disk like a very course scouring pad it wipes painted surface back to shiny metal in a flash but does not seem to remove a lot of metal has any one had any experience with this type of product as I don't want to try this on the machined surfaces (cleaning the way's) without some advise or experiment.
But so far for paint removal this thing is great wipes away paint and leaves a very clean surface. As for casting the hand wheel's (that you no longer need) it could be easily done I am a pattern maker and I am sure you could find a foundry nearby to you area that could mold these for you apart from large foundry's there are many small specialist foundry's doing good work.
Regards Rod.

Originally Posted by Rod Gilbert

Hi all,
Camo it is so good to see this rebuild and others on this forum that are carried out to such a great degree of detail it is very inspiring and I hope to do a good job on my morticer and lathe. You are going to have yourself one hell of a saw there and back in all it's glory. I have just tried a disk on my angle grinder for the removal of paint and rust it is made by Josco, stripit disk it is a very course synthetic disk like a very course scouring pad it wipes painted surface back to shiny metal in a flash but does not seem to remove a lot of metal has any one had any experience with this type of product as I don't want to try this on the machined surfaces (cleaning the way's) without some advise or experiment.
But so far for paint removal this thing is great wipes away paint and leaves a very clean surface. As for casting the hand wheel's (that you no longer need) it could be easily done I am a pattern maker and I am sure you could find a foundry nearby to you area that could mold these for you apart from large foundry's there are many small specialist foundry's doing good work.
Regards Rod.

Hey Rod,

Thanks for your response. I also find it inspiring reading people’s rebuilds, and can't wait to see your rebuilds; I also find them to be a wealth of knowledge (I have had lots of problems that have been solved by looking through other rebuilds). I don't know what it is about turning rusty cast iron into shinny cast iron, but I find it very addictive. I would love to see more rebuilds listed on this forum!

Regarding the Josco, stripit disk Josco# |# Brumby Strip-it Discs, I have one of these myself, and you are right about how well they remove paint. With the machined surfaces though, I would keep it away from that, I tried it on an old metalworking cast iron table top when I first got the disk and it left very obvious scratch marks in it, which took a bit to get out, this was back when I was using a 3M scourer under an orbital sander with WD40 to remove rust from the cast iron tops.

In an article in the "Australian Woodsmith" I read an article about using wire brushes in the drill to remove rust from cast iron tops, Melbourne Matty confirmed he had used this process before with success. I have since started using that process and I am very happy with the results. Below are the wire wheels I am using, which attach to my grinder (I got these from Bunnings for about $10 each, I didn't shop around for price, so they might be available for cheaper somewhere else):

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This is the large table which I started the other day, before it started raining (I had to take it outside, because using the wire wheel fills the air with particles). The left side shows a few areas that I passed over quickly with the wire wheel (just to kick off most of the particles).

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I have also used the razor blade method, but I find this process to be much quicker. I do the outside edges first, paying attention to the direction of the wheel, so that it is pulling the grinder back into the centre instead of off the edge, otherwise it can grab and violently throw you off the edge.

The sliding table I did just before reading the article (see in an above post) and used a combination of the razor and 3M scourer, and I can’t tell any difference between the finish on both tables, except that the wire wheel is the faster process. The only thing I do at the end is use the 3M scourer by hand to go back and forth just to even out any brighter areas (due to the fact that this is a swirling motion rather than the random orbital motion, I am not talking about scratches, just polished areas, like what you might notice when polishing a car) you might just be able to make them out in the picture, as at this stage I haven’t gone over it with the 3M scourer yet.

Cheers,

Camo