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Thread: Table Saw

  1. #1
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    Default Table Saw

    When moving some old machinery from their storage place this old table saw was amongst the gear. I have brought it back up to sunny QLD and hope to restore it so it will become a user. At this stage I cannot tell the brand other than it is likely German. Any information on this one would be appreciated. There will be a lot of cleaning up to do to get the table surfaces to an acceptably smooth level.

    P1050591 (Medium).JPGP1050592 (Medium).JPGP1050597 (Medium).JPG

    The small table at the rear is for a mortising type device. The blade is 375mm, but it looks as though a larger blade could be fitted.This is the only identification I can see:

    P1050595 (Medium).JPGP1050596 (Medium).JPG

    It is powered by a 4KW motor to which I am hoping to attach a VFD, but I still have to investigate whether the connections are suitable. I already have a 20amp power outlet, which I think is just large enough particularly when couple to a soft start VFD and plan to also install a 32amp outlet. I have to upgrade the wiring for 32amp.

    P1050587 (Medium).JPGP1050590 (Medium).JPG

    It is a fair lump of a machine weighing in at an estimated 400Kg. I believe it would have been made in the middle to late fifties.

    Moving it around was a battle and I made up a demountable gantry from scrap metal to unload the saw from the vehicle. However, I wasn't as clever as i thought in that regard. I could not stand up the poles and lift the truss section into place. Instead I had to assemble it lying flat on the ground (the gantry, not me). Then I could not lift it so I had to make up a sheer leg style of crane to erect the gantry!

    P1050599 (Medium).JPG

    and a slight better pic of the saw to remind that the thread is about a table saw: Not a gantry crane.

    P1050600 (Medium).JPG

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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  3. #2
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    Default

    I see that I mistakenly entered this thread in the wrong section by accident. It should have gone in the "Antique and Vintage Machinery" section. If the moderators are able to move it there, it would be appreciated.

    Thanks

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  4. #3
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    Default

    I would start here Woodworking Machines and Systems - WEINIG (Australia)
    Very well known company especially for their multi head moulders and profile grinders

  5. #4
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    Thanks China

    In fact I had already emailed them but not received a reply so far, which is why I threw it open to the Forum cognoscenti.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  6. #5
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    Default

    I'll send you a pm when I get home from work but it looks ok for hooking up a VSD. IF you don't have one, can you borrow a Megga from work? Motor needs a few tests before you hook up power.
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  7. #6
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    Thanks Tony

    I will look forward to catching up.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  8. #7
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    I have received a reply from Weinig Australia and despite contacting Weinig in Germany they have not come up with any information. This is the reply I received:

    Hello Paul
    That is a very old saw !
    I asked Germany about it and unfortunately there is no information what so ever available for it.
    No one at Weinig can even remember this far back anymore.
    When I googled it, it came up that Weinig was founded in 1905 which is also on one of the plates you took a photo from.
    But when I look for “Willy Schnak Woodworking Machinery” I cannot find anything at all.
    So unfortunately I can not help you any further.

    Regards

    Christian Schaetzle
    Service Manager



    I thought it was very good of Christian to take the time to contact the parent company and they are clearly a good company with which to deal if you are chasing modern, industrial level woodworking equipment.

    I am ever hopeful that somebody has worked with this type of gear in the past and can give up some more information.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    ...It is powered by a 4KW motor to which I am hoping to attach a VFD, but I still have to investigate whether the connections are suitable. I already have a 20amp power outlet, which I think is just large enough particularly when couple to a soft start VFD and plan to also install a 32amp outlet. I have to upgrade the wiring for 32amp.

    P1050587 (Medium).JPGP1050590 (Medium).JPG
    Hi Paul. I have 32amp outlets in my garage/workshop (they were secondhand and more readily available than 16 or 20 amp outlets and plugs). However the circuit is protected by 16amp HRC fuses.

    Your 4hp motor shouldn't draw more than about 6.5amps per phase. Or is your supply single phase - in which case you'll be after a more expensive VFD that also transforms 230v to 400v? 4hp on single phase draws ~20amps, so an upgrade might be necessary.

    Another thing that definitely needs an upgrade is the wiring into that terminal box... . The wiring into the motor still looks like it's okay (from what can be seen from the photos).

    Cheers, Vann.
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

  10. #9
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    Vann

    The supply is single phase and I think the 20amp outlet will be right on the limit which is why I mentioned that I have 32amp outlets, which I already have, in the grand plan. The reason I have not installed them is that I will have to increase the wiring size and it is in underground conduit and a fair pull to get the larger wiring through about 60m. In fact I will have to resort to two wires and have the earth separate at the power point. Even so I might still have to dig up the existing wiring and replace it.

    The motor is 4KW, not 4HP, which makes it about 5HP. A 32amp outlet will go close to 7.5KW (10HP). The VFD allows soft starts so there is not the high current draw (sometimes referred to as "inrush" current) that is sometimes present and can be between four and seven times the running current. Capacitor starts minimise starting current with single phase motors.

    The old wiring is that very brittle stuff. I can't quite recall the name. I think it may be PID or PIC. It was fine when new, but not when old particularly if it has been disturbed.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  11. #10
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    It's VIR - Vulcanised Indian Rubber. Rubber insulation with a cotton outer sleeve. The rubber deteriorates and breaks down. If disturbed it can crumble away to powder and leave exposed conductors. It was used up till the 50s when it was replaced with PVC insulation.
    I'm pretty sure that the deaths attributed to the governments insulation rebate scheme were because of VIR cables in metal conduit in the roofs. It's ok until it is disturbed (by installing insulation batts) where it crumbles to dust and the old metal conduit becomes live. Probably the cause of quite a few house fires as well. If you have it in your house you really should have a sparky replace it.
    Sorry Paul, back to table saws after this community announcement.
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    ...The motor is 4KW, not 4HP...
    Oops . 4kW is about 5.4hp, which must draw ~26amps single phase. I guess 3 phase in from the street is not an option where you are?

    Are you planning to switch star/delta to run the saw on 230v 3-phase?

    Cheers, Vann.
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCArcher View Post
    It's VIR - Vulcanised Indian Rubber. Rubber insulation with a cotton outer sleeve. The rubber deteriorates and breaks down. If disturbed it can crumble away to powder and leave exposed conductors. It was used up till the 50s when it was replaced with PVC insulation.
    I'm pretty sure that the deaths attributed to the governments insulation rebate scheme were because of VIR cables in metal conduit in the roofs. It's ok until it is disturbed (by installing insulation batts) where it crumbles to dust and the old metal conduit becomes live. Probably the cause of quite a few house fires as well. If you have it in your house you really should have a sparky replace it.
    Sorry Paul, back to table saws after this community announcement.
    Thanks Tony

    VIR. That's the stuff. I agree with your assessment on the insulation casualties. I never have a problem with such awareness issues being mentioned. I have one or two hobby horses of my own!

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vann View Post
    Oops . 4kW is about 5.4hp, which must draw ~26amps single phase. I guess 3 phase in from the street is not an option where you are?

    Are you planning to switch star/delta to run the saw on 230v 3-phase?

    Cheers, Vann.
    I may have to go to plan "B" a little sooner than planned. Three phase from the street may be available, but more expensive. In the past down at the location in NSW I used a diesel generator for similar sized motors and while I still have that available, it is not very convenient as to start a diesel and run it really requires it to operate reasonably loaded for a good period of time. Possibly 30 minutes minimum. Often woodworkers want to run a machines for perhaps a single minute. Also these machines would not have loaded the diesel significantly.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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