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Thread: P&N Tap Die set

  1. #1
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    Default P&N Tap Die set

    Not a woodworking tool but can't find a spot on the metalworking forum to ask the question. I acquired this old P&N Tap and Die set case hoping to make a BSF set for personal use.... I already had a lot of taps etc to go in it. When it turned up I realized that this isn't the usual Tap & Die box and am struggling to find any info about it. I am pretty sure it's pre WW2 as there is the remains of what looks like 5000 on the end. My 1943 Catalogue doesn't have any thing in it that has this layout. The other thing is the Label inside the box is 4 1/2" wide which is a fair bit larger than any of the other P&N boxs that I have. The timber doesn't look like the usual Pine but I am thinking a hardwood of some sort. Any help on this would be much appreciated. It's a 1 1/2" Die set.
    P&N Tap Die Box 001-1.jpgP&N Tap Die Box 001-2.jpg

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  3. #2
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    I have a later P&N tap n die set, I say later one as it has a plywood top and bottom box jointed surrounding wood frame and solid wood insert with cutouts, I would date it at a guess as 1960s.

    yours still has the same logo inside the box, mine is an applied decal that is flaking, yours looks Painted? or is it a decal.

    pre WW2? maybe, I would have guessed but probably 40s but if your catalogue doesn't have one - hard to say could be earlier or bit later? need a few more catalogues to check,

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    It doesn’t look that unusual; it looks like a 6-piece tap and die set. There are 5 holes for dies, plus one would have been kept in the holder. Two taps live in the upper two slots, the other four would lay end-to-end in the lower, longer two slots.

    Unless I’m missing something in your question?

    Here are some contemporary sets:

    598C7FAF-6651-40F8-A4D6-A2A0FBF25A27.jpeg
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  5. #4
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    just thought I'd check a couple of McPhersons catclogues.

    Looks like that P&N logo started appearing in the 1937 catalogue The die set pictured doesn't match yours but they don't picture the 3 x 2 (5) die set layout that you have (only one wi th the 1-1/2 dies), otherwise mostly American brand sets pictured .

    By 1951 there were multiple P&N tap n die sets with that logo, some with solid wood case some plywood top/bottom. The 1951 catalogue does list a "5000" tap n die set though in the 1-1/2 dies size. but the lid is not solid wood so would say yours is late 40s.

    Discovered they have sets in 1937 marked OK '#' mine is marked O.K. 5. these are solid wood cases, so mine is probably later, but do not see a 'O.K.' set in the 1951 catalogue.

    edit: my mistake the "5000" set is a 6 die set.

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    Chief - have your sets got model numbers stamped somewhere?

    Gaza - what is your 1943 catalogue?

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    My 1943 catalogue is a P&N catalogue put out by McPhersons .. I have a later P&N catalogue from the 60’s and a range of McPerson catalogues from 1924 on wards.

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    I don’t own any P&N sets; that picture was dragged off the web. As I said I’m not sure what the OP thinks is unusual about the box?
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Tiff View Post
    It doesn’t look that unusual; it looks like a 6-piece tap and die set. There are 5 holes for dies, plus one would have been kept in the holder. Two taps live in the upper two slots, the other four would lay end-to-end in the lower, longer two slots.

    Unless I’m missing something in your question?

    Here are some contemporary sets:

    598C7FAF-6651-40F8-A4D6-A2A0FBF25A27.jpeg
    The two unusual things about this box is the depth of the holes for dies and the position and shape of the cutout for the tightening screws on the die holder…I have a few 1 1/2” die holders and none of them fit this case…the cutout is at a weird angle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaza58 View Post
    The two unusual things about this box is the depth of the holes for dies and the position and shape of the cutout for the tightening screws on the die holder…I have a few 1 1/2” die holders and none of them fit this case…the cutout is at a weird angle
    Right; gotcha now! Yes; I see now that the shape doesn’t match a normal stock for round split dies, perhaps it was designed for square split dies? Not “Warragul” as to the best of my knowledge that terminology was only applied to pipe and conduit dies but two-piece square dies certainly existed.

    Also… I tripped over this photo showing dies that appear to have some form of self-centering system? Could that account for the extra depth of the holes?

    7C9CE13E-EBBF-4ADA-8D39-D002388AAD3F.jpeg
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  11. #10
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    Gaza, you could ask you question in the "Metalwork General" forum
    METALWORK GENERAL

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    The type of dies you are referring to, Cliff, I think are called quick cit dies..I was thinking that may be the case. I have never seen a quick cut set that only has round holes though. These usually have square holes for the cutters and round holes for the guides/holders.. maybe early sets had the cutters mounted into the guides.

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    Slightly off topic. The Patience & Nicholson (now Sutton) factory in Kaiapoi, Christchurch, NZ, went up in flames a week ago. Completely destroyed I believe. I don't know if they still made taps and dies at that site, but they made a full range of twist drills under the "Evacut" brand.

    It'll be interesting to see if they rebuild.

    Cheers, Vann.
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    Sorry for another off topic reply to Vann's post. When I was in Engineering school in Christchurch, We had students like me who came mostly straight out of school who knows practically nothing about anything, but we also had students who were from industries and they all seem have it altogether. One, who still remains a very close friend of mine, came from P&N. He worked in that factory complex while studying his pre-degree NZCE course. He did very well at our course, especially in all the more practically oriented subjects. Sometime he would take me there to show me what the real world of engineering looked like. I can still remember the smell of cutting fluids, or smothering of castings from the furnace. I certainly gained an appreciation of the complexity of production engineering, a subject that I sucked in.
    NZCE has been abolished long before the fire and in many ways parallel to the demise of manufacturing in NZ. Still P&N was there, until now.
    I am pretty sure that they will keep only a small part of manufacturing who were not damaged and uses advanced numeric techniques. C'est la vie.
    Unknown number of redundancies after factory fire | Stuff.co.nz
    Rant completed.

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    Hi all.

    Possibly this one...about the closest I could find.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Thanks Kenny..that will be the style of die holder for sure..never seen one like that before though. Your picture will be the 2 3/16 version we’re as the one I have is 1 1/2”….. will have to keep looking..not sure if the 1 1/2” version had split dies like this or normal dies.

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