Thread: R U a tool collector? Here's one to think of...

That one IS shop-made.

Here is a modern version ...



This Veritas side rebate plane is based on the Preston/Record plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I put up photos of a very similar one ‘bout 6 months back, it was some sort of Oz hardwood. Hardly a precision item but would work well enough for us Colonial’s.
H.

It's hard to tell from the pictures what the scale is but it seems to me the plane looks much larger than the Record style side rebate and maybe a bit cumbersome to use holding it side on to a tench?

First look for me makes me think more of the T shape coach makers planes. Some dimensions might help, including weight.

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

10 years ago, I went and worked in the UK and found the attached plane in one of my many searches of antique places... I'd seen pics of it for years before that, and they, for the most part, said it was a user made plane. After finding, buying and having a close look at it... BULL SH$T! I say. There is no way this side rebate plane is user made. The precision of the parts is far far too precise to have been user made.

If you come across one in your travels and the price is good - grab it.

YMMV

Nice plane .
I can understand why a seller who knows his stuff and is honest called it user made. It looks user made. And there is Nothing to say its factory produced.
Its pretty much a one off for starters . Where's all the other examples matching it ?
Its above grade timber and no maker stamps on metal or wood if that's the case points to that.
Looks like Rosewood, BRW or a rosewood type as well . Is it ?
Factory made tools used the common standard timbers . Beech a lot of the time . And if they went further along the quality road and used BRW Mahogany or Ebony then even more reason to put your mark on it.
And user made can be as precise or even more precise than factory made if tha'ts possible.
Nothing wrong with user made .

Well, I think that I have its little brother.
Also in Brazilian Rosewood and same design.
Unless it was made by the same person as a user plane, I am guessing it came from the same shop-floor - ie factory.

IMG_20230206_133344.jpgIMG_20230206_133432.jpgIMG_20230206_133503.jpg

Here is the Record that Derek mentioned:

IMG_20230206_133707.jpgIMG_20230206_133735.jpg

Cheers
Tom

Once again . Nice plane but a one off which doesn't match the first one and something that would be described as User made I think . Looks a bit more like a dark Mahogany type of wood as well.

Yours is Closer in style to these Tom . Be nice to have the other one .

MATCHED PAIR OF SIDE RABBET PLANES | eBay

Originally Posted by auscab

Yours is Closer in style to these Tom . Be nice to have the other one .

MATCHED PAIR OF SIDE RABBET PLANES | eBay

It is a wonderful user plane and much easier in use than the Record. I found it at the Sunday markets about twenty years ago.
I don't have its exact partner, but I managed to score a Terry Gordon to accompany it from his bargain section around ten years ago.
Also an excellent plane in use, but a different design of course
I should probably sell the Record as I don't use it any more.
Tom

The larger body section on these wooden ones would be interesting to try out. It'd be nice having more hand purchase on such a plane.
I have the Stanley 98 and 99 . Similar in size to the Record. I love them.
There is the occasional use in widening slots for panels to slide into which before I owned the 98 and 99 I had to do with either a chisel of a scraper.
The other main thing I grab them for is when ever I'm cleaning up the small rebate on a Desk top or a writing slope to take the leather writing surface . They are great for that. Not so much if its a new desk top I've just made. But the restoration jobs where parts have been renewed and replaced.
Rob

Last weekend I found this item; sodden wet at a jumble sale; on a table in the rain.
Remarkably neat and tidy and did not warp when it dried out.
Interesting forward tilt of the blade; scraper style?
I applied some Red Oil and it came up OK
Not Game to pull out the iron yet; may be tricky to sharpen.
Mosely and Son made it.
Cheers
IMG_0352.jpegIMG_0351.jpgIMG_0344.jpgIMG_0350.jpg

Originally Posted by derekcohen

That one IS shop-made.

Here is a modern version ...



This Veritas side rebate plane is based on the Preston/Record plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I will vehemently argue that it's not shop made. I've seen a few in pics and now have one and they are all exactly the same. No shop made tools is exactly the same between shops - ever. And! As I said before the complexity of the tool and each of its individual components is far too complex to be shop made. And they cross trades, which reduces the odds they're craftsmen made exponentially. The plane blades alone are something that would be extremely difficult to make by a woodworker wanting to make his/her own plane. You've got to start with annealed carbon steel blade, cut and file it, then harden and temper it... No way. Then! You've got to take Indian Rosewood, which many seem to be made from, and cut, chisel, and plane the body and wedges (which have multiple compound angles) to very exacting standards. Nup - no way they're shop made. One thing we know about tools and who manufactured them is there are huge gaps in the knowledge. There are many tools were there is literally no information on them, and I think these side planes fall into that category.

LOL. I got one of those too! Veritas is, I'd say, the best tool maker at the moment. I trade out my old stuff when they produce a modern version. Though, the old side rebate plane ain't going anywhere any time soon. It's a really nice plane.

A side story. I've known about Lee Valley and been buying from them since the late 70s when I lived in Canada... When veritas came along it was a revolution in tools. They didn't just copy, they innovated. I certainly was a convert, though I don't like the modern design. When I moved to Australia I saw how that tool company that we all know, who was opportunistically gouging on veritas to the point where it was way cheaper to buy direct from lee valley - and get it quicker!! About 10 years ago when I finished university I put together a proposal and sent it to Lee Valley... I was prepared to stock their entire catalogue, not just drop ship but actually carry their entire stock, even the largest benches. And, the real kicker was, I was prepared to numerically price the tools the same as their website. No exchange rate BS, or crazy mark ups... If the website stated the price was $100, I'd price it at $100... I was ready to drop 250K to purchase enough stock right away to get up and going... Someone there, can't remember the name but it began with W replied back thanks, but no thanks. They were happy with that seller here, we all hate for their gouging... To be honest I was gob smacked. But as I mulled it over a few months, I can see from a profit maximisation point of view it wasn't in their best interest.

Originally Posted by clear out

I put up photos of a very similar one ‘bout 6 months back, it was some sort of Oz hardwood. Hardly a precision item but would work well enough for us Colonial’s.
H.

Can you repost the pics? Id be curious to see the similarities

Originally Posted by auscab

Nice plane .
I can understand why a seller who knows his stuff and is honest called it user made. It looks user made. And there is Nothing to say its factory produced.
Its pretty much a one off for starters . Where's all the other examples matching it ?
Its above grade timber and no maker stamps on metal or wood if that's the case points to that.
Looks like Rosewood, BRW or a rosewood type as well . Is it ?
Factory made tools used the common standard timbers . Beech a lot of the time . And if they went further along the quality road and used BRW Mahogany or Ebony then even more reason to put your mark on it.
And user made can be as precise or even more precise than factory made if tha'ts possible.
Nothing wrong with user made .

You speak from the point of view of someone who has only seen pictures... I don't mean that in a demeaning way but when you actually hold one, and you've also been a tool maker you will appreciate how well made it is. And the pics I've seen over the decades are all the same. The odds to support its user made rapidly become infinitesimally small

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

Well, I think that I have its little brother.
Also in Brazilian Rosewood and same design.
Unless it was made by the same person as a user plane, I am guessing it came from the same shop-floor - ie factory.

IMG_20230206_133344.jpgIMG_20230206_133432.jpgIMG_20230206_133503.jpg

Here is the Record that Derek mentioned:

IMG_20230206_133707.jpgIMG_20230206_133735.jpg

Cheers
Tom

Precisely!! The only difference between yours and mine is mine is double sided. The wood is the same, I think it's Indian rosewood... No way there can be all these examples that are exactly the same and claim they're user made.