Thread: Best 12' dinghy

Well ... maybe I will do something while I am up in Sydney about this. I am thinking that of the bigger goat and a smaller goat, it is the little one that has the wings.

I have been churning over this for a while and I think the only solution is to draw up two boats that use the same method. One a family sailing version, a bit like the Penguin above, but completely Goatish, and a second high performance one for single handed racers minded types. So the builder can choose one of the two.

I am sure you have heard me argue against that oft quoted line that "all boat design is a compromise".

It is rubbish ... it is just because people don't know what they want in a clear way.

I also think the two boats in the one plan is a neat bit of marketing, making the plan more valuable.

Like the RAID41 they will use the PDRacer foils and sail - or at least the more cruisy one will.

MIK

Hello MIK,

Interesting idea to have 2 boats in one set of plans! I will be following any developments with great interest, as I am sure many others will.

Have a nice stay in Sydney!

Best regards,

Joost

G'day MIK

A heard of goats (as if Skiff boats) sounds fantastic, particularly the Kid or Cabrito in Spanish!!

JDH

MIK, below video might provide some inspiration for the performance 12 ft. one:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jHC9_GkeRQ"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

Truely a boat that can scream along!

Reminds me of my windsurfing days.

But it would be nice to see a smaller version of the GIS as well for some all-round performance.

Hello,

Just read the comments for this video, and whose name appeared:

BoatMIK!

To quote him: "Fastest singlehander monohull in the world???? By the race result yardsticks it is slightly faster round a course (yardstick 90) than a Laser (yardstick 90). The spinnaker looks like great fun though."

My thoughts were about the same: must be a lot of fun sailing this thing on a reach or downwind! Upwind performance (which it seems to lack) just doesn't seem important any longer when you have just had a downright blast sailing along at many knots an hour!

It reminds me of the fantastic sail we had in our GIS during Sail Caledonia in Scotland when we were screaming along in 20+ knots winds downwind and surfing of and overtaking waves on Loch Ness! We had the best and fastest ride of the fleet there and we had grins from ear to ear on our faces.

Joost

I don't know Joost looks a bit wimpy to me, no trapeze.

Well, I am keeping in mind the interest of you older guys who find a more sedate ride more desirable!

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

I don't know Joost looks a bit wimpy to me, no trapeze.

The rig, being a windsurfer derivative, is very forgiving. A perfect representation of flexible spars in action, a topic being discussed here:
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/gis-spars-109530/

Originally Posted by Joost

Well, I am keeping in mind the interest of you older guys who find a more sedate ride more desirable!

Very considerate of you and you are correct of course us old guys are not quite as agile as we used to be. Although the wings look like hard work for geriatrics much more relaxing in a harness.

Perhaps it will be best if MIK designs a nice back rest on the wings so one won't have to use any abs!

And for the true armchair sailor a sailing video game!

Originally Posted by Joost

Perhaps it will be best if MIK designs a nice back rest on the wings so one won't have to use any abs!

And for the true armchair sailor a sailing video game!

Now you are talking, something like the folding wings on 18's but just as a back rest.
Um hold the video game we may be old sailers but we don't need no stinkin video game.

The MX-Ray is exactly what I am not thinking of. Most of us know exactly what it is like on a racecourse or when you are sailing to a specific place.

You might have the gnarliest, most screamingest boat in the fleet, but the wind is never coming from the right direction for it to blast along in sheets of spray. Or at least in only happens in one or two races per season.

This is one of my favourite GIS speed shots.

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=hm6GxO50VYk"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

It doesn't look like much is happening - particularly with the music Peter chose. Wind is very light/moderate, looks quite static.

But looking more carefully you see the water is going past the boat rather quickly.

The boats that are inspirational - or maybe confirmational as I tend not to look outside much when in the process of thinking a boat through are the National 12s

Rather sexy (and rather expensive). Two full size adults in a little 12ft boat. and it never looked so right.



But just remember these are somewhat twitchy and definitely on the higher performance side.



It looks like they have either no restriction on the width of the bottom part of the boat or the measurement for that width is quite high from the bottom of the boat.

As I said ... i am looking to do two boats.

The reason?

Well - I want to move into the idea of making a boat that is potentially suitable for class racing singlehanded, but will carry two, but I worry about putting such a boat into the hands of first time sailors.

Specially after all the RAID41 stuff from a year or so ago. I find a new conservatism in my attitude.

The place that makes the National 12 concept difficult is that the sides are so flared. This does make it more difficult to do the "instant" prefab type of building. Another reason to have a moderate boat and a more crazy one in the same package.

Seeing the Penguin was also a confirmation as I did have doubts whether my flat bottom approach would work in a shorter boat because the rocker needs to be increased so much. But the Penguin is a foot smaller than I intend to go and has a very similar bottom panel shape. It is a bit heavy at 140lbs for the hull (not tooo bad for the Northern Hemisphere!).

It sails about the same (a little faster than) as a Mirror Dinghy - which shows just how highly tuned and competitive the Mirror is!

So this is my process so far.

The other side is I am tossing up whether the self draining bottom is useful/desirable. I find it very interesteing that while allowing it, only a few National 12s have it. I think it might be a weight consideration. With all the carbon they are using, I would think they can afford the extra weight and complication, but lots of sailors stick with the conventional cockpit.

Also note with the N12s that there is no place for an outboard.

Best wishes
MIK

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

Now you are talking, something like the folding wings on 18's but just as a back rest.

Maybe I should just make it radio controlled.

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Maybe I should just make it radio controlled.

MIK

Ouch that hurt.