Thread: BETH - new build with pics by Norm Lehman

Thanks Joost. This build has been the most fun a guy could have in a boatyard. I'll be interested in Mik's response - but my tendency goes the other way Here's a turn-of-the-20th-century design I like a lot - the cruising canoe yawl "Martin". - Norm

Did some work today on the steering arrangements. The rudder has a yoke and a "slave" tiller (also with a yoke) that will be mounted just forward of the mizzen.

The blanks for the 2 yokes, dadoed to accept the rudder blade and the tiller. Both from 3/4 in cherry.


Holding the rudder and yoke in place just to get a feel for the size. It will look a lot slimmer when it's shaped.


The tiller and its yoke. The tiller is on old ash tiller I've had forever, cut down to serve here.


I just noticed that the tiller is the wrong way around on its yoke in these pictures. The yoke should point aft of course.

A lot of shaping and sanding ahead!

- Norm

Hi Norm,

Are you happy with mixing the rococo tiller arms with the art deco hull? Just an "awareness point" rather than a criticism ... they are great fun.

FAILURE MODES

Be aware that with solid timber there is some chance of splitting along the grain. Have a careful look at how the loads might cause a split to happen and work out where a potential split is likely to run through the piece - can the tiller ropes pull the eyes out of the tiller arms?

If it looks to be a problem you can prevent with some edge fastenings or dowels or 'glass or plywood alll of which can provide strength across the grain.

A good example is wooden horn cleats. If the attachment fastenings are not used the cleats will just split along the grain and leave the base forlornly sitting on the deck.

Best wishes
MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Hi Norm,

Are you happy with mixing the rococo tiller arms with the art deco hull? Just an "awareness point" rather than a criticism ... they are great fun.

Not sure yet Mik. I've always liked the old classic shapes, and I had some nice cherry on hand, so I thought I'd try it. They look heavy now - shaping will make a big difference, but we'll see. I have an alternate idea if this doesn't pan out. I think this is one of the places a fellow can put his personal stamp on the boat without any serious issues

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Be aware that with solid timber there is some chance of splitting along the grain. Have a careful look at how the loads might cause a split to happen and work out where a potential split is likely to run through the piece - can the tiller ropes pull the eyes out of the tiller arms?

If it looks to be a problem you can prevent with some edge fastenings or dowels or 'glass or plywood alll of which can provide strength across the grain.

Point taken. My plan is to insert a pair of small brass drifts either side of the hole - although epoxied dowels would do the same job. That should eliminate the risk of splits. I saw the drift method used on an antique canoe rudder at a local museum. Again, I have another idea as backup - I usually do!

Thanks for the input - it's pretty cool to have the designer watching over my shoulder.

- Norm

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Are you happy with mixing the rococo tiller arms with the art deco hull? Just an "awareness point" rather than a criticism ... they are great fun.

Recent postmodernism is a mixture of rococo and art deco
To much solid and fantasy
Yokes-Jokes ???

Here is a link to how Hugh Horton makes his tiller connections on Bufflehead.

http://canoesailingmagazine.com/inde...nnections.html

In the US they simply use two long tillers rather than a slave system. Here in the UK the OCSG seem to use just one tiller, which has no problem reaching both sides of the canoe without catching on the mizzen mast because of the narrowness of the hull.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27848841@N05/2883977807/

Brian

The two rods are an interesting set-up to replace rudder pedals, but with Beth, you sail sitting up on the side deck, not in the cockpit. So she needs a tiller and an extension.

That kayak is an interesting design. Did you build her?

- Norm

Norm,

I agree with you that the set up using 2 rods is only good when steering from the cockpit. When sailing Beth this would probably lead to capsizing when there is more than a light breeze!

When I raised the question whether Beth could be fitted with just a main sail rather than the yawl set up I was thinking of a similar rudder/tiller arrangement as shown by Brian on his flickr site: a short side arm fitted to the rudder with a long rod attached to this side arm seems a nice arrangement when there is no mizzen in the way and especially good on a boat where you need to have your body weight way forward.

Regards, Joost

Originally Posted by outofthenorm

SNIP

I think this is one of the places a fellow can put his personal stamp on the boat without any serious issues



Point taken. My plan is to insert a pair of small brass drifts either side of the hole - although epoxied dowels would do the same job. That should eliminate the risk of splits. I saw the drift method used on an antique canoe rudder at a local museum. Again, I have another idea as backup - I usually do!

Thanks for the input - it's pretty cool to have the designer watching over my shoulder.

- Norm

Norm ... don't get me wrong ... love what you are doing! Quite different from the way I would do it ... but so good to have another Beth heading towards the water! And it all provides a chance for some conversation too.

Best wishes
MIK

Hi Norm

just posted the Bufflehead and Solway Dory methods as information and interest. Howard Rice certainly sails sitting out and the OCSG sail sitting out with the single long tiller extension fixed to the yoke. It is clever how the mizzen just does not get in the way even when sitting out. I sailed the same way with a 14' Curlew lug yawl canoe.

The sailing kayak is a design by Solway Dory known as the Dunlin and their prototype is even for sale

http://www.solwaydory.fsnet.co.uk/misc/secondhand.html

The picture I showed was from a Canoe sailing meeting I went to in Devon in the UK. The boat was brand new, just delivered by Solway Dory to a customer who was taking it out to sail on the Swiss lakes.

Brian

Hi,
As an attachemments are few pictures from M.Plucinski's (well known Polish boat designer from 193x-197x) book.

Photos (Fig 143 a,b,c,d) showing few types of steering gear designed by M.Plucinski for his boats (PV, P15, P40)
Picture no 144 showing comparision discs and yokes - you can see yokes's disadvantage when helm is 90 degree from diametral line.

(source of pictures: M.Plucinski "Sam zbuduj lodz" 1964, page 88, editor: Wydawnictwo Morskie Gdansk")

Thanks for all the alternatives.

I like the original rope and yoke on Beth ... largely because I wan't expecting to when I built the boat.

Using tiller lines was a bit of a learning curve for me because I thought they wouldn't work as they would completely destroy the sensitivity and "feel" of the rudder.

I am a racing nut after all! So, I want my rudder response to be sharp with good feedback.

When used rope to connect the tiller and rudder yokes I was quite ready to be disappointed with the system.

However ... the most noticeable thing ... it I have never noticed it!

Once or twice the truckers hitch that tensions the system on one side (and also unties to allow the assembly to come off) has slipped a bit, so I just retension it.

So ... it works very nicely.

It is dead light
It takes 20 seconds to rig
It takes 3 minutes to build
There is nothing to break.
There is no wobbling from pin joints between wooden bits.

Use relatively thin rope. 4mm is OK, preferably a low stretch racing rope. If you used spectra you could go down to 3mm for a tighter feel (because it is easier to stretch a thin rope to the point where the material takes the load rather than the structure) and the knots will stay put even better in thin stuff.

I must admit I am slightly amused by the systems that have wood on BOTH sides.

But my experience of the rope is quite interesting with the PDRacer. Finally I tried a bit of rope to connect the tiller extension to the tiller .. something I had been fighting people over for decades - and I found that if the rope was the right length then it had as nice a feel as the manufactured item.

I'd put one on any of my raceboats now! Won't that cause shock and horror at the launching ramp!

Best wishes
MIK

MIK and All,

Tell to the truth ...for Beth I prefer yokes as designed

Some more detailing - and tried the sails for the first time!



Still some painting to do. The deck is still just primer and the sides need another coat. Rudder hardware and mast steps and some other hardware all on


This was fun. Hanging the mizzen for the first time. Egyptian cotton, about 3.5 ounce.




The lacing is just temporary

Tried to hang the main as well - but OOPS! - some idiot seems to have cut the the main yard about 6 inches too short! Couldn't set it properly, but it was fun to see it up anyway. Big sail.


- Norm