Thread: What are people painting their PDRs with?

Feast watson is Good. Goldspar has better UV resistance (tested on the timber table tops outside the CYCA in Rushcutters bay over three years) but is softer for a while after application and doesn't dry as fast.

Either will be fine.

Lots of paint options ... I have been reminded of the Australian Norglass paints. They don't go on as smooth or end up as smooth with so little effort as the international (interlux) but they are fine.. and very durable.

Oh ... give Peter Hyndman a yell (local) ... he knows of other alternatives too - available at the right price.

MIK

Hi Mik,

I have a simple painting method that has always proved very durable and chip / scratch resistant on my wooden radio control model boats - up to 4 feet long ( 15 years without repainting / touching up, no scratches or chips even when running into other model boats or rocks etc. ).

Simply use 2 coats of acrylic sealer / undercoat ( used on bare timber with my model boats, but will use over the resin with the PD Racer for extra durability ), leave to dry a minimum of 1 week, then sand smooth. Then at least 2 coats of exterior household enamel ( oil based ), sanded between each coat ( heating the tin of it in a saucepan of water to about 50 - 60 degrees Celsius while simply brushing it on gives a mirror like, hard finish with no brush marks - let dry about 1 week before sanding and after the final coat before use ).

This is the method that I will be using on my PDRacer when I get to the painting stage, I have already purchased all needed 'salvage' stock ( cost is as little as 50% of retail cost - just cosmetic damage / dents in the tins - paint is still guaranteed OK ), I have always relied on the 'Deluxe' brand for both high gloss enamel paint and acrylic sealer / undercoat, so I have only tested this method with that brand, other brands might work just as well.

The Goldspar has an excellent reputation, but it's also expensive. Not that that the expense is necessarily an issue, because a good durable coating can save you money in the long run.

Has anyone tried the Aussie brand, Bondall Monocell Gold and have experience of it's long term performance? It's on the shelves at Bunnies and is half the price of the imported yachtie brands, and uses their "NanoZ" transparent zinc oxide (same stuff as in sunscreen lotions) for the UV protection. It also comes in pressure spray packs which could be quite handy for touch up jobs along the way. MONOCEL GOLD

I bought a small tin to try on a test piece of pine which was partly precoated with epoxy first (and on the new boom) to see if it's a contender for the GIS's topsides.

The first thing you notice is that it needs a good stir because the zinc oxide has settled out and when mixed has a slightly milky appearance. It brushes on OK, but not as easy as the Feast Watson (which has beautiful flow qualities), and reaches its "drag point" very quickly. It took a good 5-7hrs to become touch dry in 90% humidity and it dried very slowly, but without any bloom. I also applied one coat outside on the verandah, but undercover on a rainy day without signs of blooming either. However, when it dries it is very hard, like the Norglass on my mast but unlike the Feast Watson I used on the yard and which is still fairly soft after a week.

The Bondall has quite a good gloss, similar to Norglass, but not as good as the softer Feast Watson which has a quite dazzling gloss. The portion sealed with epoxy (West)is a golden yellow colour, whereas the unsealed part retains its timber colour without yellowing. I have been quite surprised at the extent of the yellowing caused by the epoxy. Certainly the epoxy is very clear when it goes on, but over a few days and weeks the yellowing becomes quite noticeable.

Hi everyone,

Sorry, the brand of paint in my previous post should read 'DULUX', not 'Deluxe'.

Originally Posted by dhgomm

Then at least 2 coats of exterior household enamel ( oil based ), sanded between each coat ( heating the tin of it in a saucepan of water to about 50 - 60 degrees Celsius while simply brushing it on gives a mirror like, hard finish with no brush marks - let dry about 1 week before sanding and after the final coat before use ).

Interesting David, never heard of warming the paint. Does it dry any quicker due to the heating? I'm thinking it may accelerate the evaporation of the turpentine content.

Originally Posted by woodeneye

Has anyone tried the Aussie brand, Bondall Monocell Gold and have experience of it's long term performance?

All my oars (three sets, the first set is at least 7 years old) plus the spars, rudder and daggerboard for Redback were done with Bondall. It's good stuff. Nothing's showing signs of needing revarnishing. Last time I looked, it wasn't all that cheap ... though it's nice being able to go up to your local hardware store and buy some - well, it used to be available through Mitre 10 (if Bunnings have it there's a good chance they've bought an exclusive deal).

Richard

Originally Posted by woodeneye

The Goldspar has an excellent reputation, but it's also expensive. Not that that the expense is necessarily an issue, because a good durable coating can save you money in the long run.

Has anyone tried the Aussie brand, Bondall Monocell Gold and have experience of it's long term performance? It's on the shelves at Bunnies and is half the price of the imported yachtie brands, and uses their "NanoZ" transparent zinc oxide (same stuff as in sunscreen lotions) for the UV protection. It also comes in pressure spray packs which could be quite handy for touch up jobs along the way. MONOCEL GOLD

I bought a small tin to try on a test piece of pine which was partly precoated with epoxy first (and on the new boom) to see if it's a contender for the GIS's topsides.

The first thing you notice is that it needs a good stir because the zinc oxide has settled out and when mixed has a slightly milky appearance. It brushes on OK, but not as easy as the Feast Watson (which has beautiful flow qualities), and reaches its "drag point" very quickly. It took a good 5-7hrs to become touch dry in 90% humidity and it dried very slowly, but without any bloom. I also applied one coat outside on the verandah, but undercover on a rainy day without signs of blooming either. However, when it dries it is very hard, like the Norglass on my mast but unlike the Feast Watson I used on the yard and which is still fairly soft after a week.

The Bondall has quite a good gloss, similar to Norglass, but not as good as the softer Feast Watson which has a quite dazzling gloss. The portion sealed with epoxy (West)is a golden yellow colour, whereas the unsealed part retains its timber colour without yellowing. I have been quite surprised at the extent of the yellowing caused by the epoxy. Certainly the epoxy is very clear when it goes on, but over a few days and weeks the yellowing becomes quite noticeable.

I just finished the Eureka with Bondall. I found that it went on a lot better with a brush then with the roller and I had to thin it out a little. I saw the spray packs at Bunnies to and also thought it would be good for touch ups.

Originally Posted by colburge

I just finished the Eureka with Bondall. I found that it went on a lot better with a brush then with the roller and I had to thin it out a little. I saw the spray packs at Bunnies to and also thought it would be good for touch ups.

It seems that both the Bondall and the Norglass would benefit from the addition of Penetrol rather than a solvent to improve the flow properties.

Originally Posted by woodeneye

It seems that both the Bondall and the Norglass would benefit from the addition of Penetrol.

Penetrol, I assume by the name is a product that helps the varnish soak in to the wood?

Originally Posted by colburge

Penetrol, I assume by the name is a product that helps the varnish soak in to the wood?

Yes, that too. More info here.

http://www.floodaustralia.net/produc...ook/mpbook.pdf

Penetrol is an oil based product that does several things to oil based paints or varnishes. It doesn't help it soak into too wood much, but it's a viscosity modifier and flow regulator. It lets the paint "lay down" before it permits the solvents to flash out. You get smoother finish results this way. It also helps the "body" of the paint or varnish, so it flows smoothly off the brush, which can be handy on hot days.

This stuff can also be applied to paint or gel coat to remove oxidation. The same is true of aluminum and on other metals, it's used as a protective coating to prevent corrosion.

In the USA we have a plain Penetrol, plus the other versions, but they're difficult to find. I suspect there is little difference between the types too, except for packaging. I understand they now have an acrylic (latex) version of this classic modifier, though I haven't used it yet.

EDIT:
Apparently Bruce got in with the PDF for this stuff before my post. It's full of the usual advertising "fluff" and includes a really old mistake about "Robin Benford" the famous designer and suggests her "Sunrise" needed these products, etc., etc., etc., well the real famous designer is actually her husband Jay, a friend of mine and "Sunrise" is a design he much admired and lived aboard for several years, but he didn't design her. Also they sold "Sunrise" in the early 1980's so it's pretty old stuff they're using.

Originally Posted by woodeneye

Interesting David, never heard of warming the paint. Does it dry any quicker due to the heating? I'm thinking it may accelerate the evaporation of the turpentine content.

Hi Woodeneye,

I don't think it speeds up the drying, it may in fact take a bit longer, but it does appear to increase the surface tension of the paint long enough to prevent any brush strokes forming in the first place, and does appear to make the surface harder and more durable when dry, more like a 2 part marine paint finish.

Considering the cost difference between 2 part marine paint and ease of use, compared to regular household exterior gloss enamel that is applied in only one part, with a brush, but gives a similar surface appearance, it's not a bad budget alternative. 2 part marine paint may be far more impact resistant, I have never had a need to use it, so I could not accurately say.

Some of the radio control models other people use ( that shared this tip with me ), weigh up to 60 pounds, and can travel at up to 5 knots without damaging the finnish when hitting litterally anything from another model boat to rocks. 15 years later the paint still looks like it's just been applied.

Originally Posted by PAR

I understand they now have an acrylic (latex) version of this classic modifier, though I haven't used it yet.

Hi Par

It could be the Floetrol which is also mentioned on the Flood website? I too have heard of it but not used it.

It's interesting that the product is used as a stand-alone treatment as well. It can't be used under epoxy though, but for single pack finishes over bare wood, as a pre-treatment they say it can can help prevent water damage to the wood if the varnish or paint seal is ever broken.

As for that old blurb, it is often a symptom of an old company that no-one is around any more to know what is and isn't BS! If you have correct info, I think you should tell them so, otherwise this stuff just perpetuates. Sometimes it's a waste of time, but if they are a good company they will likely correct it. The company has been around for 160 years so they must be doing something right!

Edit: I first got onto this stuff when I bought my first spray paint outfit. It was an el-cheapo unit but it did the job I got it for. Anyway, the instructions said to use Penetrol and Floetrol not only to improve the finish but to help lubricate the working parts of the spray unit. One of my customers at the time was a professional house painter, and he said would never paint without it, so I've had some on my paint shelf off and on ever since. However, I had forgotten that it can be used for clear finishes, so have never used it for that.

In the past I was a bit of a varnish and paint potions wizard. I worked outside in all sorts of conditions so had to make the paint work on any day it wasn't actually raining.

I have used penetrol a fair bit. It does slow the drying of most enamels if you add too much and makes the surface softer. In proportion to the amount added. So start off small and see how the brush feels. Remember too that it is diluting all the UV, strength and pigmentation of the paint at the same time, so smaller amounts only. I doubt I would add much more than 5% and as you will see below it is a careful process of adjustment.

With experience you can start to say that a specific paint requires X amount of thinners for your painting style.

I would only ever add it to the first coat of varnish when applying it to bare wood and then only occasionally. While I played with paint a fair bit I never played with varnish where getting it to flow is usually a matter of having the right amount on the brush.

On a really hot day when painting or varnishing, particularly with big jobs, don't underestimate the advantages of cleaning the brush partway through the job. Maybe once for boats of the size we are talking about. The brush just starts to feel gluey. So if this happens get to the end of the section and clean the brush. Dry it well or the solvent will mess up your first bit of the next stretch. I always start the next stretch in the place where defects are least likely to be noticed!

You can get penetrol-like effects with some other additives to turps based paints.

You might have heard how I think some of the modern paints smooth out remarkably as they dry - these paints should be used straight from the tin with no meddling.

You can get a similar effect with a small amount of kerosene. But I would stick to about a dessert spoon a litre (and write on the tin!) as too much means the paint stays soft for a long time. It also slows the initial drying so lap marks are a bit less likely.

Another trick we sometimes used was to get more pigment added at the hardware to paint or undercoat when we had something tricky to cover up - not a bad repair, but say a mix of paint colours!). Usually we did not do it for final coats as we wanted to be able to match repairs. But sometimes we were able to reduce the number of coats.

The basic rule of professional painting is that the undercoat has to provide an even colour base. If the undercoats have failed to cover the variation the more transparent top coat will usually fail to succeed and you will have to add several more coats of the top coat to get the same effect. The other major rule is that the amount of sanding defines how good the final job will be.

The biggest mistake of inexperienced painters is not to work in sections quickly and effectively and to make the sections too big. If you are getting big lap marks between sections it usually means that you are trying to cover too much area and putting too much paint in the brush. Just halve the areas you are doing with each brush or roller full and dip the brush less deep and see if that fixes it. If extra thinners makes little difference it usually means you are trying to do too much each time.

I would always start using the paint direct from the tin and then adjust it with thinners - with the exceptions of some of the newer paints that don't need anything added at all. I leave a stirring stick in the tin at all times. I add just a dessert spoon at a time. Once I would have said a solvent cap full but some of the childproof caps are quite large now. Stir it in and do a couple more sections and see how it goes. If the brush starts dragging later in the job another spoon of the thinner will fix the problem. If that fails to make much of a difference (it is all based on feedback from the brush) then the brush needs a clean. Get to the end of the panel first.

But this is brush painting. I really am a convert to using those little soft foam rollers for painting and using the more expensive paints that smooth out more when used straight from the can. It saves so much labour I am unlikely to meddle much with paint any more.

The big trick with those rollers is if you put to much paint on or use too much pressure then you get millions of little bubbles. Just roll out further and as the paint is spread the bubbles will disappear and take less paint and roll it out in the tray a bit more next time. This become automatic as you adjust to the feel.

Best wishes
Michael.