Thread: Drop in or OZ Racer.

OZ Racer (or even better the Goose as it gives more space for two adults and better speed) is definitely better for learning how to sail. The stability is much better for a beginner, a proper rudder helps a lot to control the boat etc...

Hi Engblom,
Thanks. What I,m looking for is something I can roof-top with out upsetting the POLIZEI. Just joking.

The roof top thing is an important question as I can't find on here how wide the OR is.

Cheers, Kev.

Move to Poland

edited to add: Goose.

Originally Posted by callsign222

Move to Poland

edited to add: Goose.

I'd be deported for that.

The OZ Racer is 4 ft wide (if I remember correctly, the bottom is one imperial 4 ft * 8 ft sheet of plywood allowing a small increase in width if the pannel width is greater).

I believe that the Goose is just as wide but 4 ft longer (12 ft long).

Never having sailed an OZ Racer, it indeed seems small for serious 2-up sailing (the Goose seems better suited for that).

Here is a video of a Goose going along very nicely in a good breeze:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mptbemZf66M]PD Goose sailboat gently planing. Homebuilt boatbuilding plan - YouTube[/ame]

Another one here:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhXwMl68ycg]PDGoose tight manouevre in scenic cay - YouTube[/ame]

Quite a bit of room for a 12 footer! And it seems to sail quite nicely.

I share Engblom's opinion that a boat like the OZ Racer or Goose would be better suited to learn how to sail (decent sail area, dagger board and rudder, more room to see how your positioning of body weight influences boat handling and speed, etc.).

MIK would be in a better position to advise.

Joost

MIK

He'll try to sell me a boat plan.

Cheers Kev.

Sounds like Joost is selling you a boat plan.

I'll help.

I like the Goose. It will be simple to build and won't take too much money. You'll have room for two people and it will store sideways in your garage out of the way. It will be a great platform to learn how to sail for a two years, and then you can sell it to another person learning to sail and build a Goat.

Therefor:

Buy this: Duckworks Boatbuilders Supply

and then, but this, just so you have them: Duckworks Boatbuilders Supply

40 + 100 = 2 boats for cheaps!

Originally Posted by callsign222

Sounds like Joost is selling you a boat plan.

I'll help.

And by help, he means help indoctrinate you into the cult of goatdom. I know; he did some voodoo jedi mind trick on me two years ago.

I also think a Goose or OzRacer would be the better novice sailing choice. I would say a drop-in rig would be good if you had no room for another vessel. Speaking of space, go for the Goose if you have the storage space for a 12' hull. But if you can only spare a 4'x2' footprint, the OzRacer can be stored upright on its transom without hitting a normal ceiling.

I look forward to following your next build!

I was thinking of entering the thread only saying ...

Both boats are 4ft wide.

End of story ... but I can add some extra.

I'd go the goose for two up sailing ... it will be more involving for both of you rather one kindof having to stay put.

... but since I drew up the supplement we have the OzRacer RV which has a simpler buoyancy tank setup than the goose structurally and is generally cleaner all round.

I would be inclined to advise ... if you think the Goose is for you ... to buy the RV plans and extend all longitudinal measurements by 50%. Actually I can CAD that for you in a few seconds.

Then the goose supplement is only relevant for the revised mast and leeboard position.

I'll have to do a proper fix of the Goose Supplement later.

MIK

Originally Posted by callsign222

Sounds like Joost is selling you a boat plan.

I'll help.

I like the Goose. It will be simple to build and won't take too much money. You'll have room for two people and it will store sideways in your garage out of the way. It will be a great platform to learn how to sail for a two years, and then you can sell it to another person learning to sail and build a Goat.

Therefor:

Buy this: Duckworks Boatbuilders Supply

and then, but this, just so you have them: Duckworks Boatbuilders Supply

40 + 100 = 2 boats for cheaps!

I do not quite agree here. If the plan is to make a GIS after a couple of years of "training" with Goose, I would not take the Goose step myself. I would go straight for a GIS.

The Goose would be a very good boat for somebody that:

1. Wants to build himself a boat. (There are many cheap used boats for sale, if it is just for to learn how to sail)

2. Wants a smaller budget in building. (Building both Goose and GIS will definitely not be anything economical as a Goose might be difficult to sell because of its "box shape")

3. Preferring extreme stability. (What a rectangular hull gives).

4. Wants smaller storage space.

After all you can also sail the GIS with over-reefed sail while you are learning too.. and you do not want too much challenge in the beginning.

I have only been sailing with boats you can capsize with, still never capsized because I have been careful enough and not been taking risks as it has not been my own boats. As long as a boat is not having oversized sail, any boat can work as a learning platform.

The canoe with drop in sail, is a bit different from how a sailing boat is. I do not know how well balanced the sail is to the lee board, but as it is in line with the mast, I can just imagine it causing a bit of weather helm, making you need a rudder in one way or another (with the paddle for example). If it is well balanced it can be even controlled to some degree without a rudder by heeling it and/or pivoting the lee board. This MIK can probably give a good answer too. All this might be a bit too difficult in the beginning to think about... and for sure you have easier to capsize with a canoe.

I think the drop in sail is very nice idea for somebody really wanting just a canoe, but also to occasionally sail a bit. I was seriously thinking about QC for a camping ground... But now it is too late as they apparently bought some other canoes. I was a bit thinking it would have been nice to take it as a group project to build a few QC. Then I would have been building my own drop in sail, to take with me when I visit that camping ground.

Howdy,

Engblom, perfect comments on the drop in rig on the canoe. There is something to be learned from such boats but it really is a paddling boat with a bit of a sail thrown in. It works better than many would expect.

The Goose is a very nice boat in its own right. As you say, the resale is less, so you must wring all unecessary cost out of it. It is a much more worthy boat in terms of performance and fun than many will expect.

And then it will still be a matter for the particular person.

I do know of at least one person who sailed the Goose and then found the Goat to be a bit tricky. I do also know almost first time sailors that have built the Goat and found it works nicely for them - even with added sandbag ballast in the case of David Graybeal.

Fire away with any questions and there are good heads and good advice here from all.

And a few nights sleeping on it will sort it.

Best wishes
MIK

Me, selling something?!?!

On a more serious note: the jump from a 12 ft boat to a 15 1/2 ft boat is quite big (don't get me wrong here, I love my Goat but also have a 12 ft scow). A few additional matters to consider are perhaps:

- Where the Goat definately requires a trailer to move her around (unless you want to be stopped by the German police!), the Goose can easily be cartopped with perpaps a small launching trolley in the boot of your car.
- The Goat will take a bit more materials to contruct, but as MIK has pointed out, the whole idea behind the OZRacer and Goose is to do things as cheaply as possible. Take for example the sail: a good dacron sail for the Goat will cost at least EUR 600 (and the Goat deserves such a sail), where you can very cheaply make a sail for the Goat per the instructions provided for perhaps EUR 50. If I were to build a Goose, I would also use cheaper readily available timber species where for a Goat I would use the ones specified by MIK, of similar species (which usually come at addtional costs in our part of the world) to ensure durabilty and looks.
- foils and spars will take the same amount to build for the Goose and the GIS; the simpler hull of the Goose will go together easier (but having seen your Eureka build, I am certain both hulls would come out as pristine jobs).
- The Goat takes up a lot more space in your shed or garage, both when building and when finished. As pointed out above, the Goose can be stored on its side using a minimal footprint.
- The Goat is a big boat to manhandle on land and also on the water when the conditions get a bit rough (the smaller boat will, due to is smaller size, be easier to handle). The Goat being a fair bit bigger will have more space onboard, but then if building a Goose RV, you would have a massive uninterrupted cockpit measuring 10 ft or so.

All in all it depends on what you are after. The Goat is for me a lifetime keeper, a fantastic sailer with very good looks, speed, handling, a decent rowboat (as long as the wind does not pick up too much, but if there is wind, why would you not sail!). Two-up it is easy to handle until the conditions get quite rough. One-up, you may want to reef early (get those extra reef points in your sail!). The GIS is a very capable boat which has done quite a few long distance events by now.

The Goose is for me a very practical fun boat. Just like the OZRacer, at first I did not care very much for its looks, but it has grown on me. It would be easier, faster and cheaper to construct and rig. Easier to store and to take with you. Surprising amount of speed for such a box. I also think that the smaller the boat, the more it will improve your sailing skills as the distribution of body weight (and to a more limited extent sail trim) have a bigger influance on the shorter hull. Resale value is something I personally don't think about much as I intend to keep all the boats that I am building (until my girlfriend, who also sails, tells me differently)

Or perhaps the new MS12 footer may be the one for you...

Joost

Thankyou all for your advice.

Joost. You just sold me the Goose.

My wife and I want to learn how to sail and it sounds like the the Goose is the way to go. It also sounds like fun. I have sailed before but when I think of my attempts at sailing alone the word Kamakazi springs to mind. Being able to transport the boat on the roof of our car is also important. It has to be safe and comfortable to drive with and besides it pays not to push your luck with the German police. We will probably sail in the area of the old Rhein and also on the Bodensee. For the later, because we will have a sail area of less than 12sqm, we won't need a licence but because we'll be over 2.5m in length we'll need to be registered.

I'll go ahead and buy the plans but I'm not going to rush into building as I've got a mountain of other stuff to catch up with.

Cheers, Kev.

Good luck with the Goose!

And remember to make many Goose videos, there are not many on youtube