Dutch GIS in Raid Caledonia

**Joost** · 24th September 2009, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Compass Project

Did Joost think up a way to deal with rowing the Goat. I was rowing us into/out of the marina today in Dana's GIS, and it is a royal pain to have a crewmember sit on the aft tank with the tiller there. How bout we think of a removable tiller concept, so it can slide off the rudder box and back on again for this purposes of rowing. The rudder can stay in and act like a skeg a bit. The stiffening effect of the tiller could be replaced with some cleats on the rudder box, either side of which the tiller slides on and stays on via a pin?

I also observed how well the Goat moves under oars and want to emphsasize to everyone the need for proper oars: light, balanced, and comfortable, but not necessarily stiff. A little give is OK.

Cheers,
Clint

Hello Clint,

To answer your question: yes and no.

For short distances, my crew usually sits on the aft tank just aside of the tiller. I do have to move sideways a bit on the mid seat to counterbalance the boat. It is a bit of a pain rowing this way as I am not sitting in the middle of the boat, but acceptable if not rowing far.

For longer distances, I find it best if the crew sits in the boat rather than on the aft tank (the weight of the crew will also be further forward and the transom won’t sink in the water much). Sitting should be read as lying down here: with the legs of the crew on one side of the boat and only a part of the body on the other side, the boat balances out quite well then with only minor adjustments required by the oarsman shifting his weight on the mid seat.

Next time I am participating in a Raid type event, I will probably make a small fixed finlike rudder with a short pivoting tiller and perhaps a rope steering system going from the tiller to the gunwales for the crew to steer the boat. I like the current rudder box / tiller arrangement, and wouldn’t want to mess with it as it needs to be strong for sailing. A small finlike rudder (not a lot of area and strength needed anyway for rowing) with a short tiller won’t use that much space in the boat when storing it with the tiller folded.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Joost

**SimonLew** · 24th September 2009, 09:14 AM

I'm kicking around the idea of doing something like this. What do you guys think?

Down position

Up position, a bungee loop around tiller and raised rudder would keep it secure or a small crutch could be fastened to the front face of the transom and the tiller secured to it with a small bungee loop.

The tiller attachment to the rudder on my Seaward works in a very similar way and it has proven strong and slop free. There is a stopper bolt (not shown) which prevents the tiller from falling below a horizontal position. Another benefit of this design is that the tiller works at an in between angle so I can steer the boat while standing by just lifting up on the tiller.

Could the crew, while sitting on the floor, steer with a partially raised tiller over their shoulder?

**CCBB** · 24th September 2009, 09:22 AM

Simon, I am liking it. I would just say that a beefy hinge would be a good thing. Would a plate underneath the joint be a satisfactory stopper? A line going from the knees or gunwales to the "stub" would keep it straight to help the rudder dig a bit acting as a skeg. The tiller would still be there for someone to steer.

I just though of a problem...it might interfere with my mizzen...hmmmmm.....no it might not. Sorry thinking aloud.

Cheers,
Clint

**SimonLew** · 24th September 2009, 09:44 AM

The stainless straps on either side of the tiller are immensely strong and the hinge is a 1/4 to 3/8" bolt so as long as the wood is up to the task I don't think the hinge would be a weak point. You have to make the stopper fairly strong since someone pushing down on the end of the tiller can exert a lot of leverage on it. I'm still noodling on how to do this exactly.

**SimonLew** · 24th September 2009, 10:22 AM

Just went outside and took a couple of pictures of what the tiller setup is like on "Proton" our Seaward Fox. I'd forgotten that there is a little reinforcing strap which ties the stopper bolt to the hinge bolt. Lots of potential leverage available to break those bolts out of the rudder if, for example, someone accidentally fell on the tiller.

**BobWes** · 24th September 2009, 12:02 PM

Simon -

Good idea and excellent drawing to illustrate it. I have been kicking around similar ideas. If I can cook up a drawing of my thoughts, I'll post it.

Thanks.

Bob

**woodeneye** · 24th September 2009, 08:50 PM

Or what about lifting the rudder blade all the way up clear of the water (or even completely) and then moving the tiller to the side?

**SimonLew** · 25th September 2009, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by woodeneye

Or what about lifting the rudder blade all the way up clear of the water (or even completely) and then moving the tiller to the side?

This would prevent using a bit of rudder as a skeg or having the crew help steer the boat on a long row as Joost has reported working well.

**Joost** · 25th September 2009, 05:45 AM

Absolutely correct Simon!

Woodeneye's suggestion was something we tried at first during the first rowing race in Raid Caledonia. It didn't work however because the crew's weight on the aft seat will submerge the transom far enough to have a bit of rudder box in the water. If the tiller is lashed to one side, and believe me it will happen, the boat will be steered to the other side.

Regards,

Joost

**CCBB** · 25th September 2009, 07:47 AM

Another nice thing about the swing up tiller is that sometimes when tacking, sitting on the floor boards, it is nice to swing the tiller up overhead. I think the hinged tiller is the solution. Simon is the lucky winner. Every one owes him a beer. And me a beer, because I started the thread about it

Clint

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