Thread: Florida Panhandle GIS Yawl

Oh, got it. I’m an old retired military (still working) aircraft maintenance guy that’s always seen specks, weights and dimensions. I panicked when my rudder T/E ended up at 2.5 and my centerboard T/E ended up at 4 mm and I hadn’t seen dimension posted. (I had to buy a cheap digital caliper; I can’t see them mm lines as well as I like). I’m good with the automatic sizing concept.

I’m not going to tell anyone how long it’s taken me to shape my foils. Learned my lesson using Oak for the foils L/E and T/E with pin head sized knots. The best thing though was I enjoyed every minute shaping them. I can’t wait to sail my “roly-poly squirreliness” GIS. Thanks John, I love that description.

Mik, if you recall from one of my old emails, I’m the guy that knows where the Boring Oregon Tavern is. I can’t say that I’m real proud of that. That was a different time of my life – but they had "beer". Thanks, Mik, Bruce and John for trying to keep me out of trouble. I got it, follow the plans.

So you are the guy! Good to meet you again Roddy,



There are no other Boring photos in the set
USA Day 8, 9, 10 - Timothy lake Messabout - a set on Flickr

It is a set of sailing goats (well one) and other boats with the "Oregon Coots" on Timothy Lake in the Oregon mountains.

No problem with the specs aspect, ask here if you want anything! With boats the square edge with sharp corners has been found to be equally efficient to a fine edge and much more durable.

I did specify it (well, I didn't specify, but you ended up with the right 4mm) to be a bit wider than you would want with a raceboat, but it does give you quite a durable edge.

The rudder can be narrower because it never hits anything - unless you back into it, so is closer to a pure racing spec.

Always good to bring other experiences into the equation too, so nice to have an aircraft maintenance person too.

As far as the Goat plans (and all my plans) go, There are a whole bunch of quite tight specifications, but they are all kinda hidden away in the building process.

I only realised relatively recently that my interest in sophisticated boats is sort of hidden away in the plans. The final boat is very well sorted out to quite a high racing specification (in terms of gaining efficiency). The builder just follows the plan and makes all the bits, but the reasons the boats sail well are something that they will probably never realise.

Actually, that is something that is really true of the OzRacers and Goose, because people often build those as a first basic sailing boat. I think many are attracted to the Goat by its performance, so are a bit more aware that the detail in the plan package contributes.

Do you fly aircraft as well?

Best wishes
MIK

Oh, and do you do airframe repairs as well??

Glass and/or metal? Wood?

Best wishes
Michael

Originally Posted by Boatmik

So you are the guy! Good to meet you again Roddy,



There are no other Boring photos in the set
USA Day 8, 9, 10 - Timothy lake Messabout - a set on Flickr

It is a set of sailing goats (well one) and other boats with the "Oregon Coots" on Timothy Lake in the Oregon mountains.

No problem with the specs aspect, ask here if you want anything! With boats the square edge with sharp corners has been found to be equally efficient to a fine edge and much more durable.

I did specify it (well, I didn't specify, but you ended up with the right 4mm) to be a bit wider than you would want with a raceboat, but it does give you quite a durable edge.

The rudder can be narrower because it never hits anything - unless you back into it, so is closer to a pure racing spec.

Always good to bring other experiences into the equation too, so nice to have an aircraft maintenance person too.

As far as the Goat plans (and all my plans) go, There are a whole bunch of quite tight specifications, but they are all kinda hidden away in the building process.

I only realised relatively recently that my interest in sophisticated boats is sort of hidden away in the plans. The final boat is very well sorted out to quite a high racing specification (in terms of gaining efficiency). The builder just follows the plan and makes all the bits, but the reasons the boats sail well are something that they will probably never realise.

Actually, that is something that is really true of the OzRacers and Goose, because people often build those as a first basic sailing boat. I think many are attracted to the Goat by its performance, so are a bit more aware that the detail in the plan package contributes.

Do you fly aircraft as well?

Best wishes
MIK

I remember the Boring picture from your original posting last year. Check the background out - it's even Boring. Well maybe not the trees in the far background. We got to keep those trees coming along or there wouldn't be a Woodwork Forum. Oregon is beautiful but I'm glad I live in Florida.

I'm sure you're correct that most builders will not realize why the GIS performs as well as it does. However most of the folks I've read in this forum have figured out that there's something special going on here. For me it had something to do with the designer's mother hen approach to everyone's forum posts and a boat that rows and sails well in a wide spectrum of uses. hmmmm?? (I hope the "mother hen" comment is not taken out of context here.) And to say nothing of the fact that as a young boy growing up on the Oregon coast my all time favorite boat was the McKenzie River Boat. The GIS has that classic wooden boat appeal too. Now, I've got to follow these detailed plans very closely so I'll get what all those folks who've finished ahead of me have found.

The only flying I do is back in the economy section. I can't wait until my first security pat down or full body scan. I'll get to do one of those a week from now. I was an aircraft structural repairman (sheet metal and polyester resin fiberglass) and a licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic. Being an older fellow I know all about aircraft spruce ribs, spars and dope and fabric as well. I now train military folks how to use software programs to produce and manage their technical manuals. After my first post I told myself I wasn't going to be wordy again - look here I went and did it again.

On to the good stuff, foils are finished (except for the varnish). Comment to John, I didn't get quite the mirror finish you did on your foils; a close second or third. That said, I'm not going to show everyone a reflection of my face in the finish, I don't want to destroy my foils just yet. The oar's, Birdsmouth main and yawl masts are next. Photo's to follow when our camera gets out of the shop.

Roddy

Mother Hen here

An interesting angle as you build the boat might be where some of the aircraft methods intersect with the build. In a way it has already happened with the question about the trailing edges.

I do know the aircraft guys have some methods that will be useful to boat builders as well. For example preparing surfaces have been properly prepared for adhesion using the water drop test is an interesting one that most boatbuilders don't know about. I happened on it when I bought an aircraft trade manual at a second hand book fair.

Also the ideas material handling. So if you have any comments on the way through that relate your background to the project would be quite interesting.

I guess the main thing is to feel comfortable with what you are doing - so don't feel any stress over this!

Would be interested to know about the tech manual side too. I spend a lot of my time writing them!!!

MIK

I can’t believe my last post was last November. Of course that’s the post where I called Mic a mother hen. After that brilliant move I decided to lay low for a while. I’ve only been able to spend a couple of hours a week on the build. That said it is coming along. I have finished the spars, oars and foils. This weekend I’ve started on the centrecase and rudder stock. And right off the bat I’ve ran into a question. I haven’t found a picture or thread (that I can find anyway) discussing/showing the dagger board clearance forward and aft in the centrecase. I have the required side play of 2mm but for the forward and aft clearance I have 40mm. My foil is 341mm and all the other measurements are as noted on the plans. Do I leave the 40mm gap or tighten it up some?

That sounds too big for the normal build.

I would double check the measurements.

Sometimes I get questions that it doesn't look like the two will be a match, but that is usually because the particualr can't conceptualise how the fore and aft length of the centrecase increases as the centreboard angle forward increases.

For example - if the centreboard is vertical the case slot will be slightly larger than the fore and aft centreboard width, but if the board is raked back then the case will have a wider slot from a visual point of view.

MIK

Check out this page: https://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/g...4/index10.html and post #147. The conversation continues down the page, and woodeneye makes a comment on post #151 on page 11. No clear resolution, but everyone has had larger cases for-aft than the board. I ended up gluing in 2" of foam at the front of the case up top, and on the aft end down at the water to help keep my board from getting banged up and stop it from slopping around so much. It's a big space in there.

I just measured mine, and my daggerboard case opening is 410mm for/aft and the daggerboard measured diagonally across as it fits into the case is 370mm-- so that's a 40mm gap for/aft.

I'm not able to measure mine but the extra 40mm sounds about right per my poor memory. I just figured it is there to ease adjustments if you find your boat has too much weather helm or lee helm.

To correct for one, put a bungy cord across the top and pull it forward. For an opposite correction pull the bungy cord aft.

Thanks, I thought I had messed up my measurements. I just set the centrecase aside for a week hoping a good gremlin would come by and fix it. Christophe I knew I had seen comments on this but I couldn’t find them. Thanks.

Okay, after reading Mic’s comment about adding a strip (30mm in my case) to fill all but a 10mm gap I have a couple of questions. After reading MAM’s comment that helm adjustment can be accomplished by rotating the board forward or aft in the slot, what should I do? 1. Should I fill the gap at all, leave it at 40mm? 2. Should I place a 30mm filler in the forward or aft part of the centreboard slot? 3. Or should I split the difference with 15mm added to both the forward and aft internal framing? I’m building the yawl version of the GIS and was wondering what overall effect moving the centreboard by 30mm forward or aft would have on the boats handling?

Thanks

Roddy

I have the answer – thanks Michael – it was really great getting to meet you first hand and chatting for a while. And poor John, my wife told me later that I had spent four hours examining your boat and asking way too many questions of someone just finishing the Texas 200. John you were pulling our leg – if you have a 20 foot GIS – I’ll be lucky to have a 50 foot GIS. Sorry for being such a pain. Watching you guys coming into the narrow Seadrift docking area under mizzen only was grrreat.

The answer - Michael suggests moving the centreboard forward filling the gap with polystyrene type foam (bit of a shock absorber) that has the forward edge capped with a strip of hardwood. The shock absorbing aspect sounds good after seeing what happened to John’s centreboard’s trailing edge during several of their short water moments. For those who have already built their GIS and have this +/-40mm gap and are not using the extra space to adjust helm, Michael suggested adding, after the fact, the polystyrene foam and wood strip to the centrecase. As Christophe mentioned, see https://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/gis-beginners-build-concord-nh-102574/index10.html post 149.

Any suggestion on the polystyrene foam? I have some very dense ½” thick play room matting that looks like it might work.

Originally Posted by roddyhd1

I have the answer – thanks Michael – it was really great getting to meet you first hand and chatting for a while. And poor John, my wife told me later that I had spent four hours examining your boat and asking way too many questions of someone just finishing the Texas 200. John you were pulling our leg – if you have a 20 foot GIS – I’ll be lucky to have a 50 foot GIS. Sorry for being such a pain. Watching you guys coming into the narrow Seadrift docking area under mizzen only was grrreat.

The answer - Michael suggests moving the centreboard forward filling the gap with polystyrene type foam (bit of a shock absorber) that has the forward edge capped with a strip of hardwood. The shock absorbing aspect sounds good after seeing what happened to John’s centreboard’s trailing edge during several of their short water moments. For those who have already built their GIS and have this +/-40mm gap and are not using the extra space to adjust helm, Michael suggested adding, after the fact, the polystyrene foam and wood strip to the centrecase. As Christophe mentioned, see https://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/gis-beginners-build-concord-nh-102574/index10.html post 149.

Any suggestion on the polystyrene foam? I have some very dense ½” thick play room matting that looks like it might work.

Here is some of the damage from hitting the boattom at speed that Rod is talking about. Each dent in the trailing edge has a great story. The ones just above the 1ft mark is from sailing in water that the chart sail was 10ft deep. The chart was wrong and the sandy bottom along the Texas coast is always shifting.

I cut out a strip from those dense foam kayak supports for cartopping kayaks and canoes and glued it into the case, one for the top forward and one for the aft case on the bottom to protect the leading edge. Too many collisions with underwater rock piles led to this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_veIyanfT-P...0/IMG_0612.JPG

(that's Cherry, by the way) which necessitated a repair:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-M04M6yK979...0/IMG_0845.JPG

After three days of sailing this season, my leading edge has already cut through the foam (and I thought this foam was relatively dense) and the trailing edge of the board is nestled up against the aft end wood of the case yet again.

I'm going to have to find firmer foam. Maybe a section of rubber hose? (how does one affix rubber hose permanently?) I don't know.

EDIT I just saw the reference to the play room matting... that might work! It's tough, finding the right balance between soft enough to give and too hard where it will damage.