Thread: GIS in Brazil - finding materials, ply, epoxy and building

Reckon it is worth checking the general storer forums about boats building in different places.

People have had problems sourcing things in Denmark, Mexico, Slovenia, Argentina and Chile... Not to mention downtown Melbourne!

MIK

Hi MIK,

I think our friend from Brasil shouldn't worry.

The availability of wood in Brasil is enormous... they several tree species from the jungle to chose from. But to make it easier, with the right plywood, some oregon pine and red cedar he will have enough to start with.

I'm not sure about epoxy in Brasil, but if i found a dealer in Chile, I'm sure there will be someone selling epoxy in Brasil. And by the way, the two compounds poluretane varnish that I use here is imported from Brasil!

Good luck with the GIS, I think is a good options.

Saludos,

JC.

Thanks, Juan Carlos

Over my panic now and have found what look like good substitutes, though they are a bit heavier than Australia and USA options so I will have to be careful not to go wildly overweight with the GIS. They are>

Cedro - Cedrela fissilis Veli., Meliaceae.
Freijo - Cordia goeldiana Huber, Boraginaceae. This is used for light aircraft propeller blades and generally replaces Sitka here. About 80kg per cubic metre heavier than Sitka as far as I can see

Epoxy sorted out and specialist plywood manufacturers found who should be able to provide high quality marine plywood. Sub-quality plywood is definetely not to be used - imagine all that hard work sinking under you..........

With space and time limitations have decided to start with the fiddly, complicated (for me - I am not a craftsman carpenter) bits first (rudder, daggerboard, spars) and will do the hull with my German brother-in-law when he is in Brazil later this year, by the coast in his big house.

I have read your construction thread - congrats, you have had a lot of challenges. Look forward to the sailing photos.

Steve

Steve, keep us posted!

Hi Steve,

Red cedar is very good , they usually call it "Bolivian cedar", but I'm sure the Brazilian one is as good.

The other wood I've never heard of... but you need something like oregon -which at least in Chile is expensive 'cause it is imported- and a hardwood.

If you come around let me know and we can catch up (a lot of people from Brazil come here in winter season for skiing)

I'm glad you find a good plywood and epoxy supplier.

The Varnish I will use is from Brazil:



Good luck and keep us posted... The blog has been very useful to me and I'm sure you'll find it helpful too.

Saludos,

JC.

Greetings from @#$% freezing Brazil. Mid winter here and don´t believe anyone who says this is a tropical country (not in the South at least). Trouble is - no heating at all in the houses so you end up watching the telly wrapped in a duvet. I felt warmer at home in Scotland, where I was brought up.

I have been meaning to do an update for ages but am ashamed how long I am taking in comparison to other builders ( I will need somewhere to stow my Zimmer frame on board by the time I hit the water). Lots of reasons for the slowness of the build but I am plugging away.

I continue to build backwards - the complicated (for me) bits like the rudder, dagger board and box and spars first. The spars next (hollow mast) and then the bulkheads - hope to glue it all together with my brother-in-law when he next visits the country later this year.

Questions on wood, ply, epoxy all resolved (thanks for the tips) and one benefit of going slowly is that I can look over other builders´shoulders on this forum while their questions are resolved - an amazing world community - never seen a forum like it and exactly what I love about the net. Loved reading about the new RAID´s first time out on Loch Ness. Learned to sail on Scottish lochs - never knew where the wind was going to come from next - great training for reading the water colour and ripples to see where the next gust is coming from. Usually an unexpected direction.

My woodworking and sharpening skills improving all the time - feel quite at home with a long plane now - and creating the aerofoil shapes was both a challenge and very satisfying. Probably not up to NASA standards - but neither are my sailing abilities! Getting the assembled rudder blank to 22mm tore up my friendly (now not-so-friendly) local woodyard`s thickness planer so had an inspiration for the dagger board blank. Found a nice, clean, pine fingerjointed panel exactly 22mm thick in the local hardware store, cut and framed it with local hardwood (ipe), carved to shape and ended up with a board I am quite proud of. Seems plenty strong enough - my first capsize recovery will soon tell me if it actually is - !

Slightly different, elegant if I say so myself, solution to the tiller than on the plans using some really beautiful local timber - and I will post a picture this weekend in case anyone wants to copy ( or tell me it is rubbish....)

Great bits of info. We have a similar problem with temperature and housing design I Australia.

Adelaide is supposed to be the dryest city in dryest country on earth they say ... but we freeze during winter at temperatures that a North American, or even a New Zealander would think is luvverly sailing weather!

The boat in Scotland was not the RAID - it was a stock standard Goat. So they did very well indeed.

Will be nice to see some pics. The way you are doing the bits first makes a lot of sense. The hull goes together relatively easily.

Good tip about the fingerjointed kitchen counter! Very cool.

Make sure the fingerjoints don't all match up across the same line as the line of the hull bottom where the board exits the case and it should be very right.

It is quite interesting too. Quite a few mention how they find making the foils a bit laborious but are very satisfied with the result.

I think it is because it sort of breaks away from normal woodworking to do something almost like a bit of sculpture. This is very cool and surprising when the builder suddenly finds they can produce something beautiful.

Best wishes
Michael.

MIK

Just run out to the garage to check the fingerboard joints dont line up. Thankfully not!

Pics soon

All the best

Steve

I could forsee that little moment of panic Steve. I would be pretty sure that they wouldn't line up as it causes a problem for the workbenches as well.

BTW it can be a good idea to either do the glassing or and epoxy coat over the foils if you are way off glassing so they don't warp while waiting. A couple of weeks in no problem, but a couple of months might not be good.

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

It is quite interesting too. Quite a few mention how they find making the foils a bit laborious but are very satisfied with the result.

I think it is because it sort of breaks away from normal woodworking to do something almost like a bit of sculpture. This is very cool and surprising when the builder suddenly finds they can produce something beautiful.

MIK

I found building the blanks and shaping the foils to be very satisfying - once I got over the intimidation and trepidation of doing something I had never done before.

I had never owned or used a plane prior to shaping the rudder. I did practice with the plane on a piece of scrap but still I was nervous when I began on the rudder. As I worked it I began to see the shape coming out of the blank which was encouraging. The more I worked with the plane the more confident I became and by the time the rudder was finally shaped I felt a sense of self-satisfaction.

After cutting the centerboard blank to the profile shape I struggled with "seeing" how the foil would emerge. This caused me some delay in starting because I did not want to somehow ruin the centerboard. However, after a couple of days of just pondering the blank from different angles I began the shaping. By this time I had acquired a jack plane to go along with the block plane (I went from having never owned a plane to having two in less than two months' time.) and before too long the foil was done. I cannot say why I couldn't "see" the foil in the profiled blank, but the wood and the plane worked together to coax that foil into life.

I do think the foils are beautiful and the realization that I crafted them is cool, surprising, and very satisfying. I am beginning to realize that building a boat from an assortment of raw materials creates a much more intimate knowledge of that boat than one could ever develop with a purchased boat.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobWes

After cutting the centerboard blank to the profile shape I struggled with "seeing" how the foil would emerge. This caused me some delay in starting because I did not want to somehow ruin the centerboard.

Mate, never let that fear stop you. It's only a lump of wood. What's the worst that's going to happen? You'll stuff it up and have to get another lump of wood. It's very easy to get a little precious about all these bits, especially if they were expensive bits, but the reality is that they're just a lump of wood, they'll either make this piece or make another piece later (don't throw away anything larger than your finger).

Personally, I love working with a plane. It's one reason I make my own oars. The pleasure in having something appear out of a stick is wonderful

Richard

Richard -

I'm learning! After shaping the foils, trimming bulkheads to the cut lines and cutting bevels, I am wondering why it took me so long to "discover" planes.

Oars, you say? I'm going to need some of those. Got any information about making oars a novice could understand? Patterns, etc.?

Thanks.

Bob

I started with Jim Michalak's article on oar making

From there, I've resized things to suit the various lengths I've made (5', 6', 8'). I've also fudged the technique a little to suit the planks we get here.

I use Radiata Pine which is a generic plantation pine that's full of knots and so rubbish that it's referred to as a weed on these forums. However, I can usually find a plank free of knots and it makes nice, light oars that I've yet to break. For the Little Black Dog though, I might get something better.

I won't go into my method here, just to say it's a lazy man's version of Jim's. I don't make the square looms - I can't see that they help much to balance things and up to now, I've used moulded rubber rowlock buffers (whatever they're called) and these need to slide on over the handle end so I couldn't go square even if I wanted to. I'll be making new oars for the Little Black Dog and plan to write up my method when I get around to making them. Give a yell if you reach oar making before I do and want some tips.

Richard

Strange...

Realizing I'll be needing oars before too long, I did Google search on Friday for "making oars." Jim Michalak's article was one of the hits. I read it, thought it might be a good thing to have on hand, downloaded to my computer, and printed it out for future reference.

But to show you just how short my attention span is... Earlier this month I bought a copy of Michalak's Boatbuilding For Beginners (And Beyond) but had put it in a stack of stuff to look at later. This morning was "later" and as I enjoyed my morning coffee on the patio (before the heat became unbearable) I browsed through the book. To my surprise, there's the article on how to make a set of oars! Now I have two copies...

And then, seeking guidance, I get referred to the Michalak article... I'm thinking I better read that article carefully.

I am sure there will be questions, regardless who reaches the oar-making stage first.

Thanks again.

Bob