Thread: GIS Build in Queenstown New Zealand

Hi Ian, sounds like you possibly got ply similar to what I initially got. Mine had a bad side and a decent side so I carefully picked the parts layout to have only the good side show. The wood grain did not look great on the good side but in the interest of moving the project along I decided not to worry about it and cut out all the parts anyway. The look of the wood was gnawing at me so I epoxy coated a test sample and it looked absolutely awful. Dark reddish brown and blotchy not anything like the beautiful golden color of Joubert. So I ended up scrapping the lot and bought Joubert. Man is that stuff nice. Lesson learned, the expensive way. You may want to consider doing an epoxy coat test to make sure your wood grain looks OK to you.

The bottom piece is what the fake china "okoume" looks like epoxy coated

Hi Ian,

Sounds like the ply probably was a bigger sheet - probably European size and was docked down to the "standard" (weird) Australian size.

You are clearly a man of character, avoiding the temptation to stretch the boat like that!

MIK

Originally Posted by SimonLew

Hi Ian, sounds like you possibly got ply similar to what I initially got. Mine had a bad side and a decent side so I carefully picked the parts layout to have only the good side show. The wood grain did not look great on the good side but in the interest of moving the project along I decided not to worry about it and cut out all the parts anyway. The look of the wood was gnawing at me so I epoxy coated a test sample and it looked absolutely awful. Dark reddish brown and blotchy not anything like the beautiful golden color of Joubert. So I ended up scrapping the lot and bought Joubert. Man is that stuff nice. Lesson learned, the expensive way. You may want to consider doing an epoxy coat test to make sure your wood grain looks OK to you.

The bottom piece is what the fake china "okoume" looks like epoxy coated

Yes, that bottom piece of ply you show looks bad, mine doesn't look like that, just a blotchy bit or two in few spots which can be tucked away out of sight.

Here is my transom, most of it looks like this, and comes up well with epoxy on it:

Still worth it to pay the extra for the Joubert or equivalent brand ply, and beware of some of the cheaper stuff, there seems to be a bit of it around over here, I know someone building Ross Lillistone's Flint had some problems with the ply taking the reasonably extreme twist that design has in the bottom panels, whereas it's worked fine with the high end stuff.

Ian

I now have the boat in 3D.



Still only dry fit, I'm waiting for some more glue powder to turn up, and building oars in the meantime. Exciting, as everyone has remarked to get to this stage. Progress has been a little slow for a while - family demands and an incurable urge to find a different way to do things.

I'm doing the whole boat in hardwood - Paulownia - a very soft hardwood, Gaboon and Vic Ash, a few thin pieces of Jarrah. Most places where medium density wood is required, I'm laminating Paulownia and Vic Ash together. Not sure I'd recommend this approach, it doubles work time (and epoxy use!) but it has been interesting.

My gunwales and inwale spacers are Paulownia with Vic Ash on top, the outer gunwale layer had to be in two layers as one thicker layer would put too much strain on the thin hardwood layer which is being bent along the wrong axis. A bit of work laminating long bendy strips together, but the whole gunwale structure is done and ready to go in place when the time comes.


I did my dry fit a little differently - Partly as I was working on my own, and also I felt that starting with screwing the stem in place is likely to put a lot of strain on that area as the boat pulls into shape, a few people have had some splitting of the chinelogs and unfareness up there at this point.

I attached bulkhead 1 to the top of a sawhorse, then screwed the two sides to it, then put bulkhead 2 in place. I then pulled the bow in and held it together with cord, but only enough to stop it pulling apart at bulkhead 1 as I pulled the stern in. From there bulkheads 3 and 4 and the transom in place, pulling the stern together with cord. I then fitted ersatz gunwales of 60x20 mm MDF, screwing it in place with screws/pads from the inside.

I'd figured out inwale spacer positions and drilled holes in the gunwale at about 150 mm spacing at the point I had the two sides flat after joining/cutting them out. Once I was past halfway going forward, I drilled a couple of holes through the top of the MDF at the bow - top, threaded cord and pulled the whole bow together using just tension on the MDF gunwales. Everything came together nicely and easily without any creaking or heavy pressure needed anyywhere. The temporary MDG gunwales protect the ply edges and the real gunwales till they go on, and because they're good and stiff, the fairness of the gunwale edge looks really good.

I laminated my stem from two 20x50 pieces of Paulownia with a piece of ply on the rear face. I cut the ply to the right tapered shape before laminating, that shape and the glue line on the front provided a good reference to the tapered shape and bevel angles needed.



There are a few other details - a lot of attachment points down low which will be good for attaching hiking straps, extra buoyancy or gear bags when cruising. My aim is no hardware in this boat at all - no little stainless saddles etc. to gouge chunks of flesh out as you move around the boat. My chine logs are also bevelled at about 25 degrees, so will slope slightly downward when the boat is level - no where for dirt or water to accumulate along there.



The whole rudder assembly is wood. The rudder pin is 12.5mm thick Jarrah:



Nearly everything is lined up for more rapid progress now, hoping to be done while there is still some sailing weather left.

Oh yes, and I did manage to get the sides out of the 1200x2400 mm ply. I had to add a bit at the ends with a buttstrap, and I moved the first side as close as possible to the edge by subtracting 9 mm from all the offsets. Much to my relief, when I cut out the first side and turned it around to mark out the other side, I had about 4mm spare to fit the second panel on the sheets.



Ian

Hi Ian

Thanks for this post, which is very interesting! My mind is boggling with the extra work you have put into all the laminations. Easily, the effort thus far would equal a completed Goat built in the conventional way! It will be interesting to see what effect it will have on the overall weight, although that is not your main driver I know.

The all-wooden rudder is interesting. I'll have to trust your engineering capabilities on that piece as I'm out of my depth there. But a big thumbs up for pushing the boundaries and saving money on fittings.

Be careful with your hiking strap attachments. Do they go right through to the other side of the Paulownia as there is a lot of leverage to cope with? You may have that sorted already though as that could be glass reinforcing there.

Your assembly process does sound easier. It would be great if you could take some detailed pics of the glue-up, as a pictorial says it so much better than words.

I like your accuracy

for someone knowledgeable and who prepares carefully, Ian's method will work OK.

The big risk it introduces is that the bow meeting nicely is what keeps the bulkheads square across the boat. I worry that someone might get that last step a bit wrong and create a problem that is hard to solve.

I think it is better at the beginning, when there is less time pressure and just use the big ply patches to make sure the chinelog doesn't break the ply at the bow.

Whichever way the assembly happens - the dry run (without glue) to resolve any issues is essential.

Best wishes
MIK

Hi Ian,
Thanks for the update, the boat is coming together really well.

Impressed by the home made rudder fittings, is there much friction?

Hope my GIS turns out this well.

Cheers, G

Problem I had with the rudder box was that I dry fitted all the bits and probably passed the spacer post through the thicknesser once too often. So my lovely nice snug fit, was too tight after epoxying and varnishing everything. What I realised was that each surface had 3 coats fo epoxy and three coats of two-pack. So the rudder blade gap had 6 coats on each of the four surfaces, ie two rudder blade faces and the internal box faces. So, with 24 coats I could not pull the blade up between the side cheeks of the rudder box.

Just something to watch out for.

Brian

PS love the all wood approach Ian - a true wooden boat.

Brian

Howdy,

Good warning from Brian. The standard 25mm spacer with the 22mm blank works pretty well.

MIK

+3mm is a good rule of thumb then

I've just noticed the extra piccies in your post Ian. Your solution to get the sides out of the smaller ply sheet size has worked extremely well. Mik, I think this solution needs to go into the Wiki!

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Howdy,

Good warning from Brian. The standard 25mm spacer with the 22mm blank works pretty well.

MIK

Good to hear, that's exactly how I've done my rudder box spacer and rudder foil blank. (I have been known to follow the plans!)

And, yes I have edited the post above and added a couple of extra pictures of how I added the extra 55mm to the 2400 mm ply length for the sides.

Ian

MThanks for that! Nice to have the info pinned down for those who get caught in the same situation.

Bruce, I won't add it to the WIKI because I don't want it to become a standard method. But that Ian has documented it means that if someone else gets caught with trimmed down ply then there are ways of compensating - and a good record of it here!

MIK

Ian
Care to share your strategy for NOT "improving" your Goat by 750mm.
I find sitting down with a cup of tea and waiting for the feeling to pass works out most impulses...
But I would have been very temtped.
I like your stategic holes thru existing structure vs screws and saddles etc.
"simplicate and add lightness.." anon.
"every part left out cant break." Zora Duntov (Corvette designer)
"I just make things lighter till they break, then go back a step." Colin Chapman (Lotus Cars)
Wayne
Fremantle

Originally Posted by woodeneye

Be careful with your hiking strap attachments. Do they go right through to the other side of the Paulownia as there is a lot of leverage to cope with? You may have that sorted already though as that could be glass reinforcing there.

Here is a close-up of my hiking strap attachment points.

Attachment 160138

The holes don't go right through, but they are in hardwood ( Vic Ash) blocks that are laminated in place. I was going to put a patch of glass on the front of them, then after I made them I decided not to glass, but in the end I put 80x80mm patches of glass over them so they extend a bit either side and up to the ply above. (I used two layers of 2 oz glass).

You're right, if you stretch a line between two attachment points and pull at right angles on that line, the forces are multiplied greatly.

Lots of extra attachment points are also there so I can keep gear and or extra buoyancy tied down if I am cruising.

Ian