Thread: GIS for the former small-dinghy sailor

Originally Posted by AlexN

G-day All,
After this verbose and rambling preamble, my question is: what does the GIS have to offer compared with an NS14 in terms of sailing response/handling (I know that it will be nippier than a Mirror) for a rusty former small-dinghy sailor who only has money to afford and room to store one smallish boat?

Best regards,
AlexN

G'day Alex

Have you looked at the Goat videos at http://www.storerboatplans.com/video.html ?

If I was in your shoes (which I'm not), it'd be the Goat for me. And I'd use the cost
difference to fund several decent family holidays up the coast !!

cheers & happy pondering !
AJ

Originally Posted by b.o.a.t.

G'day Alex

Have you looked at the Goat videos at http://www.storerboatplans.com/video.html ?

If I was in your shoes (which I'm not), it'd be the Goat for me. And I'd use the cost
difference to fund several decent family holidays up the coast !! :2tsup:

cheers & happy pondering !
AJ

Hi AJ,
Just had a peek at your URL, thanks! Looks well balanced, and the crew looks happy. Since I wrote my initial post I've found a number of flickr (&c.) slideshows on the building and sailing of the GIS - building the boat is within my grasp, but not sure about the sailing of it. It looks great in the water though, esp. planing! The sail looks as though it has a couple of reef points in it: if so, maybe I could reduce sail area on blowy days until I got used to handling the boat ;). Or kept initial attempts for really calm weather.

And the probable low cost of the boat hasn't escaped my notice. Thanks for confirming that.

Cheers,
Alex.

Alex, will you be sailing with crew mainly, or 50/50 or nearly always on your own? Brian

Originally Posted by AlexN

Hi AJ,
the crew looks happy. Since I wrote my initial post I've found a number of flickr (&c.)
Cheers,
Alex.

The crew better want to look happy.
The solo film clips are the designer !!

I'm sure Michael will be along sooner or later, but he is "internet challenged" at the moment..
cheers

Howdy Alex,

I have spent a lot of time in NS14s - sweetest sailing boat in the Universe - though they are a bit trickier to sail now than in my day ... have moved well away from family sailing dinghies.

Waterlines have got narrower reducing stability (increasing speed) and considerably reducing the excess payload they can carry.

So all NS14s that are to be used in racing have to follow these trends. Unfortunately the shapes have moved a long way away from what can be easily achieved with plywood - very complex compound hull shapes with concaves and funny sharp curves all over the place.

There is one plan you can get for what looks like a US designed NS14, but to my eyes it doesn't look like it would have been competitive in 1980 - or the mid '70s as the Dribbly series NS14 hulls and others like the Carrack started appearing - this is probably a very moot point ... because it is of the type that will handle bigger crew weights so would be an acceptable family sailing boat .. maybe two adults and two little kids would be the top limit without digging into sailing performance too much - as it was in that era of NS14 sailing.

It is a much more complex build that the Goat. It would be much more expensive to rig, it will be much, much slower to rig (Rigging time and rig expense is a flaw of all conventional sloop rigged dinghies when compared to boats with freestanding masts - so not a failing of that particular boat)

The NS14 was a huge influence on the Goat in terms of sail area, hull volume distribution, centreboard and rudder systems and hull weight target. The hull weight was a pleasant surprise for the first GIS - it was 10 lbs lighter than the NS14 while being a foot and a half longer.

Best wishes
Michael

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

Alex, will you be sailing with crew mainly, or 50/50 or nearly always on your own? Brian

Sailing would be mostly on my own - until I can get my wife and daughter up to speed on a trainer - which of course really suggests that I should be going for a PDRacer first ;). Given the low cost of both boats, the rate limiting step is storage space.

Alex.

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Howdy Alex,

I have spent a lot of time in NS14s - sweetest sailing boat in the Universe - though they are a bit trickier to sail now than in my day ... have moved well away from family sailing dinghies.

Waterlines have got narrower reducing stability (increasing speed) and considerably reducing the excess payload they can carry.

<snip...>

The NS14 was a huge influence on the Goat in terms of sail area, hull volume distribution, centreboard and rudder systems and hull weight target. The hull weight was a pleasant surprise for the first GIS - it was 10 lbs lighter than the NS14 while being a foot and a half longer.

Hello Michael,

Thanks for your detailed reply in apparently difficult circumstances!

As I would have been sailing an NS14 non-competitively, hull shape/waterline wouldn't have been an issue - if I could have obtained some older ca. 70s/80s plans. At any rate, I appear to have shifted my loyalties to the GIS given its broad range of capabilities.

I had actually found a plan for a "Delta V", a US variant of the NS14, which might be the one that you refer to above. It looked as though it would be reasonably quick, but "quick" is not necessarily what I'm after - "stable" is more the main criterion as the main intention is to use it as a family boat. Then again, the GIS seems to be frisky anyway!

Crewing for a GIS that I sailed would ultimately be 3 adults or 2 adults+2 kids max.

The complexity of the NS14 doesn't worry me (I love constructional challenges), but the speed of build of the GIS has the great advantage of getting in the water quicker, all other things considered. I am, however, going to check out the PDRacer as well, as a training craft for the girls in my family, who might need something more docile to start with. The PDR seems to be even quicker and cheaper to build and rig than the GIS, and maybe I can force myself to make room to store both hulls (in any case my workshop is stuffed with household furniture as a result of a recent re-flooring exercise).

On the other hand, the GIS sail looks as though it can be reefed, and I wouldn't be taking the boat out in a rip-snorter in any case. No harm in acquiring both sets of plans :).

Cheers,
Alex.

G'day Alex
Major shift in thinking possible when moving from class sailing to non-class....

so long as you don't compromise the engineering & safety, you are -allowed- to do whatever you like with sail area etc.

Put in 3 sets of reef points & the kids can learn in GIS on a really reduced power rig.
Shake out reefs as they gain skills.

Or make a separate polytarp sail that they can handle for between $30 - $50 all-up.
Or scrounge an old Laser rig as a bloke in another current thread is considering.

Add a spinnaker for calm days if the mood takes you.
No-one to protest, no-one to tut-tut, no disqualification or de-classing.
It's GREAT !!!

The girls might want PDRs soonish to assert their independence, & that is a development class anyway if the fiddling bug gets you...

cheers
AJ

Thanks for the comments, AJ.

3 sets of reefs sounds interesting & useful.

Polytarp sail sounds good - we gave our daughter a sewing machine for Christmas '08. Not that I had any intention then of using it to make sails! Honest! No, really!

Kites were going to be one of my future questions, so can partially tick that one off the list, thanks :).

With regard to general boat-building materials, while I'm thinking of them, it would seem to be more sensible to acquire plywood locally from Mr Ply&Wood, as they sell marine ply in various thicknesses from 4 mm to 25 mm in a large-ish sheet size (2400 x 1000 mm), and in different veneer types, viz.:

"Genuine Mahogany - MARINE PLYWOOD - AA - A BOND - TO AS/NZS 2272";

"SEA PLY® - Pacific Coachwood Species - MARINE PLYWOOD - AA - A BOND - TO AS/NZS 2272";

"MAHOGANY - MARINE PLYWOOD - IMPORTED - TO BS1088";

"DECORATIVE CEDAR MARINE - IMPORTED - S2S - A BOND - TO BS1088".

Does anyone have any comments to make about MrP&W's plies, +ve, -ve or +/-? Money saved on ply (transport) costs could go to rigging, paint, etc. If it comes down to a choice betweeen quality and price, I will usually go for quality if I can afford it - or put off the purchase until I can.

But...having said that, I seem to have made a Terrible Mistake with a relatively expensive 1HP heavy-duty drill press recently, to replace my old H&F light-weight press with dodgy quill <sigh>. I thought that paying almost $700 for said tool (over $700 with added decent v-belts) would increase the chances of the tool being good. I think I've merely paid for a good induction motor and switch gear, some reasonable pulleys and an OK chuck. The MT2 taper was a bit dinged out of the box, but as there were no apparent raised edges on it I let it pass.

Apologies for the OT rave - I've spent a couple of days trying to sort out severe spindle vibration on this press when pulling the quill down, and I'm not a terribly happy little Vegemite.

Anyway, I've decided to get the plans for the GIS plus the PDRacer Oz Mk 2, and once in hand will start a BOM (or two).

Any other advice gratefully received, however :).

Cheers,
Alex.

G'day Alex,

If you'd like to get a head start on a GIS I may be able to help you ( for a price ). I have had all the parts for the hull sitting in my shed for the last 10 years or so waiting to have time to finish it. In the meantime my older children have grown up and I'm now looking to build a PDR to sail with my 7 year old son. The parts for the hull are all epoxied (except for the decks and seat) and ready for assembly. I also have all the rest of the timber needed for the hull but not for the rig or foils (I'm going to use the foils for the PDR).. If you're interested let me know and we can organise a time for you to have a look at it.

cheers,
clay

Hello Clay,

Thanks for your kind offer to sell me your stack of GIS bits :). Being the rather weird person that I am, I like to do things from scratch from the beginning.

As such I am at the moment preparing to forge ahead along that track, but may of course change my mind if unforseen circumstances bite.

I'll keep your offer at the top of my list of notes in case I need to get in touch!

Cheers,
Alex.

No worries Alex. Drop by anyway if you'd like to get an idea of how it all goes together. I live in Eastlakes.

cheers,
clay

Thanks for the new offer, Clay. I'd like to do that at some point.

Anyway, I've paid my money and taken my chances, as they say, having ordered plans for both the GIS and the PDR this arvo :).

I also got the latest price list from MrP&W up the road in Hornsby (I'm in Wahroonga), in case I get some +ve feedback about them. Prices vary around a mean of $100/2.4 x 1.2 m sheet.

I'm assuming at this point that both boats use 4 or 4.5 mm ply, but I will hold off until I've got the plans and studied them in detail in any case.

Cheers,
Alex.

Hello Alex,

For the GIS you will need 6 sheets of 6 mm ply measuring 2440 x 1220.

I believe the PDR uses 4 mm ply for the sides and 6 mm for the bottom. I am not sure of items like the tanksides and decks (I have only built the GIS and do not have the PDR plans).

Have fun building either of these boats!

Best regards, Joost