Thread: GIS Rigging, Blocks, Lines, and related

Howdy,

One area where things have changed in recent years is using thinner lines but not scalling the blocks down quite that much. This reduces the more critical risk of the rope rubbing on the sheave. Also there is less friction because of the larger diameter matched with the smaller pin of a plain sheave.

Not as good as a ball bearing block, but way cheaper!

MIK

Detail Question:

For blocks lashed to yard or boom, do we want the eye for the line to be oriented perpendicular to the line or parallel with the line?

We want the block to lie parallel with the boom, so what works best?

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Howdy,

Not as good as a ball bearing block, but way cheaper!

MIK

http://www.intensitysails.com/ha404blforou.html

These 16mm Harken Airblocks are jewel like, used by all the top sailors for control lines and cost $10. The only other blocks I use are larger ones for the mainsheet.

I am never gonna agreed with you about using plain sheeve blocks which are just a few dollars less than jewel like blocks from the likes of Harken and Ronstan and others. Building any boat is not cheap but these micro ball bearing blocks with low cost line add so much to the pleasure of tuning and learning about lug rigs.

With plain sheeve blocks all you are gonna do is pull as hard as you can before you go out and never ever adjust them when sailing! Never to learn about what can be achieved.

Brian

Duckflat had problems with getting cheap rudder fittings too so had some made locally. Not highly polished but are stainless. With a continuous pin they are good for the Goat.

MIK

Originally Posted by Compass Project

Detail Question:

For blocks lashed to yard or boom, do we want the eye for the line to be oriented perpendicular to the line or parallel with the line?

We want the block to lie parallel with the boom, so what works best?

By changing the lashing you can accommodate either way. Sometimes I use an X type lashing when the eye in the block goes the opposite way to what is desired. There is always some way to make it work with rope.

MIK

Brian, Thanks for that link. I do like the Ronstan stuff, a lot, and very accessible via my West Marine down the road, but I am trying to support Duckworks, too. Would rather give them my money!

The other goal is to find the balance between going totally cheap and totally wild with gear as well as with choices for the actual boat.

Do you know other US suppliers for good lines for dinghies. The Intensity Sails site has everything precut according to the boat.

Also, for mainsheets a little stretch is OK, right? So is Polyester or Nylon better for this, given that Nylon stretches more? I also know that one of them stretches more when wet...

Originally Posted by Compass Project

The other goal is to find the balance between going totally cheap and totally wild with gear as well as with choices for the actual boat.

I tried before to make up two lists, one low cost and the other high cost. It did not work that way though. By going small blocks and thin line you can have the best for hardly any extra. It is actually hard to find low cost plain sheeve blocks anyway. Non of the Ronstan ones are imported into the UK anyway. To use poor quality plain sheeve blocks would be to deny a huge amount of sailing pleasure.

So really for me there is only one list, good quality 16mm ball bearing blocks for controls, and then just decent mainsheet blocks. The biggest saving is if you can find a ratchet mainsheet block at a lower cost.

For mainsheet rope I would recommend a specific developed mainsheet rope, something for the Laser should do.

If you have a local supplier make sure you go down there and handle the blocks you are thinking of using. It's surprising how some you like and some you don't when in your hands. Some suit some boats some not.

Brian

Mind you, for all I said, there is one way of going really expensive and beautiful. just remembered these lovely Herreshoff blocks



http://www.bronzeblocks.com/

Brian

Or good old polyester double braid for the mainsheet works fine too.

I don't know if they are doing it now but there were some sheet ropes that were made of polypropylene. It is light, floats, but rots away with exposure to UV light - and it is possible that the types of boats we deal with might be out in the sun for several days run.

That would be my only caveat about what to avoid in terms of lines designed for dinghies. Same is true of vectran too.

Mainsheets don't normally get much stress so don't worry too much about stretch

MIK

I am glad you mentioned Vectran, Mik, I was just looking at that material. Will stay away from it.

I know the man who makes those Herreshoffian blocks. Jim is a good man and I always try to chat with him at the shows.

Brian, do you know anything about the lines that are double braid over a core...these look potentially good for a boat like the Goat.

The guys at Intensity Sails look like they know what they are doing...those Harken block look perfect, but they don't take 5/16 line that MIK specs for Goat...they are for up to 7/32. In general, how close do you want to stay to that...if I cheat up a 32nd or 16th is it going to be an issue. Do you know if those Harken block come a tad larger for a 8mm mainsheet?

Clint, I only use the small 16mm Airblocks for very thin control lines. As MIk and I do agree, keep to the smaller spec line in any block for good performance.

For my mainsheet I use the carbo blocks and the single fixed is the cheapest of these because it has not swivel head or shackle. By being a plain head it is cheapest and you then attached as MIK describes using a loop of string. This means you get the best block performance at the least cost.

Ok, I use either 29mm or 40mm carbo blocks for my mainsheet. 29mm is pretty small but it did seem ok on my last setup, but also 40mm is what I use on my Scow.

Here are the tec details from Harken's US site.

for the 29mm - max line 5/16

Product Details

and the 40mm, which I would choose for the larger Goat mainsail, max line 3/8"

Product Details




To make my allltime favourite set up I would add my all time favourite block, the Harken 57mm Ratchamatic

Product Details



This block is a beauty, comes on as load is applied and has helped a number of my arthritic friends cope much better with mainsheet loads. It's expensive but for your customers who can afford it or need it, it is a superb block for handling the loads of a large lug rig mainsail.

On the lines, I have not a lot of experience these days. I seem to use plain dyneema for most things, although it causes me problems in cleats and I realised on my Scow I have a slightly thicker braided line going into the cleats. As I said the mainsheet rope developed for Lasers is good enough for me.

Brian

I've been doing a fair bit of pricing things out and am realizing pretty quick how much more expensive it would be to rig things with the Dyneema vs a prestretch polyester line. New England Ropes makes their Endura (dyneema) and a Finish Line (prestretch) and the prestretch is half the amount!!! So, there will be two options, but what I want to be able to explain is what the practical different will be in the rig outfitted with all dyneema vs all prestretch.

I like the blocks Harken has, but I like the Ronstans, too. So two options there too. Price point seems a little higher here for Harkens.

Winding down my research as flu #2 in less than a month winds down. Blaaaaa.

One of the problems Clint, with these modern ropes are the appalling colours that are produced for the modern dinghies. Purples and yellows etc detract quite a bit from a nice wooden boat. It's one of the reasons I use plain white and plain grey dyneema.

With the local classic producers you have, does anyone produce a modern rope but with an older look?

In the UK, Classic marine do a nice buff braided polyester which my son Edward used on his Tammie Norrie.

Never Mind the Bowlocks - It's Classic Marine



Get well soon!

Brian

If it is a dollar thing, Clint, you can well and truly get away without ball bearings.

This type of rig does avoid most of the fine adjustment under load requirements that racing boats fall victim too - vangs, shroud tension, choker mast ram even all the centreboard purchases to adjust a swinging board from the side of the boat.

With the Goat there really is only the downhaul (in the basic setup) but that is kinda a brutal adjustment - not really something you need to play in and out millimetre by millimetre - on, ON and Brutal.

The one place where the high tech ropes are worth their salt is that halyard. Then the downhaul and finally the corner lashings for the sails.

Michael