Thread: GIS Yawl

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

Hi Clint, this picture of my Solway Dory Curlew sailing canoe may be of interest and possibly create some new ideas.



Look carefully at the rudder head. There you will see a piece coming out sideways and slightly upwards. Connected to this is a very long adjustable tiller - actually a modified boat hook.

I realise the sailing canoe is narrower than your Goat, but what was so interesting about this set up, is that the long tiller actually clears the mizzen mast on both tacks. Very simple but really worked. No problem sitting on either gunnel.

The geometry is based on the long tiller and narrow hull. Not sure if the same geometry can be created for the Goat Yawl, but the concept is interesting and may be worth a drawing or mock up.

Brian

I've seen these on Oughtred's boats too Brian. I have no experience of them, but they seem to work just fine.

In the pics of Andrew Denman's Caledonia Yawl you can see the mizzen is plumb centre. The video doesn't indicate any issues.

Attachment 128821

Denman Marine - Day Sailers

Thanks Bruce for posting the link to Denmam Marine's wonderful video. I have seen it before but it's just so relaxing and lush I had never noticed the tiller arrangement.

Fed up this morning, no idea why, so the video brought me round very nicely.

Good that it shows the arrangement working really well. I think it is know as a Norwegian Tiller. Slightly strange to use though. Push me Pull me action. I seemed to have to pull or push and see what happened and then go the way I wanted to. Probably just a matter of time to get used to. Much nicer for steering up forward where the helm should be sitting as well. The MacGregor Canoe I had was just a matter of sitting with the tiller under the armpit and gently sliding it forwards and backwards. ( If you see what I mean!)

Brian

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

Thanks Bruce for posting the link to Denmam Marine's wonderful video. I have seen it before but it's just so relaxing and lush I had never noticed the tiller arrangement.

Fed up this morning, no idea why, so the video brought me round very nicely.

Good that it shows the arrangement working really well. I think it is know as a Norwegian Tiller. Slightly strange to use though. Push me Pull me action. I seemed to have to pull or push and see what happened and then go the way I wanted to. Probably just a matter of time to get used to. Much nicer for steering up forward where the helm should be sitting as well. The MacGregor Canoe I had was just a matter of sitting with the tiller under the armpit and gently sliding it forwards and backwards. ( If you see what I mean!)

Brian

Hi Brian
The other great feature on that Caledonia Yawl is the tiller arm extends on both sides of the rudder, so you can connect to either arm, whichever would suit you best. On your canoe, is it possible to reverse the arm? if so the push/pull direction can be reversed to give you a more natural control.

I had a Ground Hog Day today, so seeing that video does have a calming effect. One of the servers at work crashed last night before the backup was done, and it was restored to an earlier time, which meant all yesterday's data was lost. We had do the previous day's work all over again! Aaaargh computers, we love to hate them

Doesn't that Tirrik move nicely too?

Originally Posted by woodeneye

One of the servers at work crashed last night before the backup was done, and it was restored to an earlier time, which meant all yesterday's data was lost. We had do the previous day's work all over again! Aaaargh computers, we love to hate them

Doesn't that Tirrik move nicely too?

I spent my working life installing and running manufacturing software. After one major software & hardware installation, when I got home at 12pm after going live, my wife wouldn't let me in! She reckoned I did not live there any more.

Yes the Tirrik moves very well, with a very good sailor at the helm. Notice how much he heels her going upwind, illustrating how tender these designs are but also how they firm up as they heel.

Where's Clint got to? I reckon we have his solution here.

Your point about one tiller or two is well made. One tiller will do for both sides, but perhaps that's the confusing bit because with one tiller on one tack you pull to bear away and on the other you push. Perhaps that's why Hugh Horton uses two tillers on his Bufflehead. Denman just use one.

Brian

I'm here...busy in the shop and with kids and finished a presentation to the Landing School students on birdsmouth stuff (it went great)...trying to keep up with everything has had me a bit fed up lately.

I love the push-pull tiller but it would require more modification to the rudder housing. I think we have the solution that leads to the least amount of modifications. The mizzen will be offset by about 8 1/2-9" and the tiller will stay as is. The mizzen will sheet to the transom and a boomkin can be added later if that doesn't work well enough.

I have a boat I am designing (very slowly on the side) and it is a lug-yawl and IT will have a push pull tiller for sure.

Thanks, guys.

If I can be allowed to lament here a bit, I need to decide if I am going to do the Goat for myself (it is time to make that call). The boat is feeling a wee bit small for me at 15 1/2', albeit it is a large feeling boat at that size. Something about being 6'6" tall and with a family that needs to get on the water and a little boy who really wants to get out in a boat again (he is excited about seeing his toy Goat full size right now), but he will be getting bigger, too, much bigger with my genes. Realizing that a larger Goat adds cost and time and wetted surface and therefore sail area, I think it would nevertheless be better for me to find a 17' x a little over 5' size skiff...the problem is there are not any as elegant as the Goat in that size range that goes together as nicely. The CS 17 doesn't suit my eye. Really I need another foot/foot and a half on the Goat with a touch more beam perhaps but not too much to row without cussing. We'll see.

Cheers,
Clint

The Push Pull is useful on narrow boats where the sitting position is static. But it is a pain in boats where you move from side to side - in the goat about 5 feet. I would argue against changing it from side to side as this will get really confusing.

Maybe I would adapt but after sailing several boats that use this system I don't like it. I think it does suit boats that are graceful rather than brisk in their handling characteristics - like sailing canoes or folding schooners.

It is confusing enough with the tiller just on one side as you have to say push to luff on one tack and pull to luff on the other. So if you swap the sides over then it will reverse.

This might be confusing at the wrong time. Have to move to mid boom sheeting so the traveller and mainsheet won't interfere.

Also most underestimate the length of the yoke. The yoke has to be something like the length of a tiller to get the right mechanical advantage.

It is still easier just to put the mizzen that little bit off centre.

Michael

Originally Posted by Boatmik

The Push Pull is useful on narrow boats where the sitting position is static. But it is a pain in boats where you move from side to side - in the goat about 5 feet. I would argue against changing it from side to side as this will get really confusing.

Maybe I would adapt but after sailing several boats that use this system I don't like it. I think it does suit boats that are graceful rather than brisk in their handling characteristics - like sailing canoes or folding schooners.

It is confusing enough with the tiller just on one side as you have to say push to luff on one tack and pull to luff on the other. So if you swap the sides over then it will reverse.

This might be confusing at the wrong time. Have to move to mid boom sheeting so the traveller and mainsheet won't interfere.

Also most underestimate the length of the yoke. The yoke has to be something like the length of a tiller to get the right mechanical advantage.

It is still easier just to put the mizzen that little bit off centre.

Michael

Not a problem for those of us that are used to RC

A Day's Work: Busy in the shop with a Goat!



I need help!



This is a scarf/Butt Joint glue up jig I made a while ago. It is wicked useful.



Here is a useful device to see if bulkheads are flush with outside corner of plank. It is called a "Jumpstick".



It is interesting that I've got this thing put together to the millimeter and some weird stuff happens...I need to let the stem gap like you see here for the plank to fair in to the stem so it looks good.



It's been fun putting the hull together. Sadly, I will need to glue it up them put it outside under cover until I can finish it off. I'll have another few days of fun, though.

Almost forgot to show off my screw up: One side panel was glued up with the butt joint out of alignment. So I cut out the butt strap and put it through the ringer. The Old plank will be recycled.

"Jumpstick" = Wicked good idea, bro! NICE!

I thought you'd be more impress with me wacking the #$%^&^%$ out of the buttstrap.

Jumpstick = trick from boat school. WICKED handy doo-dad.

OH YES, The other day I was just noodling on how to get the bulkhead bottoms aligned. That's brilliant.

Just make sure that one edge is dead straight.

You can also use it with an offset, cutting the edge back at the lower end.

Clint

I like the jumpstick idea a lot too, and the but joint jig thingy is a great idea. I just have a few car batteries!

Any thoughts on how the joint got out of whack? Was it "epoxy ballbearings"?

Bruce

Oh, I forgot to explain the butt join. I've glued like a thousand scarfs/butts, and this hasn't happened for a while, but I knew right away. If the butt ends of the panels are pushed up really tight -- really tight -- and held there properly (use nails or brads to do this) then the assembly slips. A 1/32nd out at the butt join means the ends of the planks are out well over 1/8th of an inch. A little change translates to a lot far away.

When glueing together planks that are already cut to exact shape, you should glue one on top of the other so that the two can go together exactly the same. I forgot to do this, otherwise I would have seen that the butt join slipped when I hammered the brads in place to hold it all together. One of the nails found and old hole or I hammered it in at an angle...the mistake was not that but rather in not having the other plank underneath as a reference. The redo plank is an exact mirror of the first.

In the attached photo you can see the underlying, previously glued, side panel. I am glueing the second panel right on top of it and flush to it all around. The butt joints are directly above/below each other.