Thread: Goat Island Skiff

Howdy Bruce, I also don't know what you guys are talking about when you started discussing your umber from down under! I need to take a trip to Oz.

Good luck with timber. It is worth planning that out, but not letting it push back the start date, so find the best available and work with it. For my work, sometimes I end up having to work with some Spruce that is not that great.

Lumber choice was difficult for me as well, trying to find local substitutions for the varieties in the parts list. Michael and others here made invaluable suggestions -- go back 5 or 6 pages to find them. Armed with those and with some idea of how the different pieces would be used, I was able to find almost everything at a couple of local stores -- regular lumber yards, not marine suppliers.

My secret weapon was my friend Jim, a finish carpenter with decades of experience, knowledge of all the forgotten stashes at the local lumber yards, and a willingness to paw through piles of timber for The One True Board. He spent a couple of hours with me, helping me find clear boards and make substitutions. He also knew when it would be cheaper to buy fewer, larger pieces out of which we could rip what we needed. If you know a Jim, use him.

In the end, though, I did decide to pony up $$$ for a few critical pieces. I got the plywood full-price from a reputable supplier. (The cheaper retailers had Israeli stuff which looked crappier even to my untrained eye.) And I special-ordered the spar lumber at a per-piece cost that gave me palpitations. For these, I figured that the peace of mind was worth the extra cost.

This was made more palatable by the fact that there really is very little waste in the parts list. The plans make excellent use of the pieces on the list. You won't curse Michael for leaving you with expensive odds and ends.

I received the e-plans from Duck Flat Wooden Boats yesterday so now have some light reading to do. I was able to print them out at work on a decent laser printer in A3 format, and the quality is first class. Good work Mik At first glance they do seem a little daunting to me, but hopefully when I sit down to study them properly and go through Mik's extensive “how to” document they'll make some more sense to me!

I have to now start clearing out some detritus from my garage to make space. This is more of a challenge than the plans right now, as I'm a bit of a bower bird. There is a 100year old 10 seater kauri table down there with nice turned wooden legs that I saved from demolition site. Brought it home in pieces and restored it. Maybe I'll just cut the legs down and use it to build the Goat on? Just joking. There is also a lovely old model W126 280SE Mercedes that has to go to because it takes up all of the space the Goat will need. Awesome car in great condition and with new Pirelli shoes if anyone is interested l'll even provide 12 months registration if you come and collect it!

I clearly jumped the gun when I made that earlier post titled Timber choices. I notice that Mik has already covered timber choices quite extensively in his documentation, so it's comforting to know that I'm on the right track at least. Thanks Jeremy for the heads up regarding the hoop pine ply sheet sizes which are 2400mm x 1200mm. Just looking at the cut-out plans, this would require some extra sheets of Hoop, so I'll do some research and see if there are any suppliers of decent Gaboon in the Newcastle area first.

There is a Mr Ply and Wood outlet in Newcastle NSW. Does anyone know if they stock decent Gaboon because I'm only 30km away. Also, are there any visual tips for selecting good ply?

Originally Posted by woodeneye

I have started thinking about timber selections for the GIS and would like to know what your thoughts are in relation to these choices. Let me know if I'm on the right track or if you think there are better choices.

Hull: marine Hoop pine (I've heard it's better quality that the Gaboon stuff that's available these days. Does all the Gaboon now come from China?)
Framing, gunwhales and stringers: Paulownia
Transom: Paulownia
Bow stem: Hoop pine
Seats/decks: Hoop pine
Dagger board and rudder: laminated Hoop pine
Mast and spars: laminated Hoop pine (Hollow mast and solid boom/gaff)

Cheers
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Sorry for missing this .. and thanks to JMK for following it up. I will change your boat pic links to images a bit later.

South Africa was well known for building VERY good wooden Fireballs! They and some of the Brits got it down to a real artform producing very light, but very stiff boats.

So ... Timber.

Hoop pine ply is a problem because as JMK mentioned it is a smaller sheet. the parts for the GIS just won't fit so you will need the bigger sheet. Not all Gaboon comes from China, and some of the Chinese stuff is quite nice (a lot is pretty terrible too). Duckflat have some lovely stuff at the moment, but it varies so much from shipment to shipment that a lot of suppliers are giving up on it.

The Paulownia is great stuff, however it is vulnerable to denting on impact. If you follow your list but change the gunwale, inwale, spacer blocks and knees to something harder than the paulownia from most of the framing will be fine.

Paulownia should be OK for the centreboard and rudder too ... won't that be light!

As far as the scariness of the plans ... it is all carefully procedural so if you start at the beginning, then by the end you will have a boat. Which is good for both of us.

That was the big decision when I did the plans ... that the bulk would scare people off. The bulk is nice because it turns the plans into a type of boatbuilding course. Actually those here who are building boats in such number deserve quite a lot of credit for making my plans marketable ... the boats prove that the plans work.

So thanks everyone.
MIK

By the way .. I think the first three posts a person does are moderated so there is some delay before they appear.

MIK

And Paulownia is probably fine for the stem and the transom framing, except for the top stiffener of the transom.

The Paulownia solid timber seems to be the best opportunity for reducing weight now that Gaboon ply is becoming less available for some.

But if both Gaboon AND Paulownia are available .. you won't find me complaining!

MIK

Originally Posted by woodeneye

Also, are there any visual tips for selecting good ply?

I think the advice is to look along the edges of the stock of sheets you are thinking of buying. If there are no voids in the edges of the sheets you are looking at they may also be few voids in the middle of the sheets as well.

The other thing is, I think, try and find Ply with reasonably equal veneers, rather than say two paper thin outer veneers and one thick middle one in a 3 ply.

Others are far more experienced than I am in this area, but that's a couple of things to consider.

Brian

That has been quite true of some of the Gaboon that has been appearing here ... the face veneers have to be better quality, so sometimes they cut them so thin that by the time the faces are sanded you can see the dark glue coming through.

So like Brian says it is nice to look at the edges of their stock ... there is nothing like looking at the edges of 20 or 40 sheets in a rack or stack to get some idea of what is happening in the middle.

If I am phone ordering I always put a bit of pressure on them by asking if there are any problems will they replace any problem sheets.

MIK

Has anyone installed venturi-type self-bailers in their boats? I imagine that the Goat would take on a bit of water if capsized.

Howdy,

It sure does ... it is quite a bit of bailing. One guy is putting in some drain tubes that go out through the transom and run level to the front of the seat bulkhead in front. Also there is the possibility of closing up the mid seat and even extending its front forward.

The reason I don't mention self bailers much is that the things leak after a short time making sure that there is always a bit of water in the boat. Usually the Goat will only have the amount of water aboard that you bring in on your feet because it is so high sided. So swings and roundabouts.

By the way, if you go ahead, the optimum solution is two of them out to either side of the boat about a little bit forward of the widest point of the floor. Actually I can't remember where the water accumulates when sailing the Goat in proper trim.

MIK

Thanks for the info. I sure as heck will install bailers as there is only one use for a bucket in a boat and it ain't for bailing! It's a long time ago but I can remember having problems with leaks and having to make new gaskets from inner tubes. Nowadays they sell the gaskets separately. Is there any good oil on which brands are preferred, ones to avoid etc?

I was thinking about installing drain tubes, but it's overkill for the Goat. Double the sail area and I'd think about it then.

I showed my brother a pic of the goat and I think he's quite intrigued. He sails a Paper Tiger and his young'n sails an Opti. But he's hinted that he'd love to have a family boat if the budget allowed. Well, that's the whole point of the Goat, isn't it?!

Howdy Bruce,

It is not between the hull and the fitting that it leaks, it is the the sliding fit between the baseplate and the bailer section which swings down pivoted at the front. The water is only kept out by pressure of a rubber seal against the side of the bailer section.

MIK

I am wondering how low the GIS sits in the water after being brought back upright after a capsize and it's full of water? Perhaps the cockpit tube drains would be useless anyway if the outlet wasn't above the surface. If so the venturi self bailers would be a better solution anyway.

Does anyone have a pic of their boat while full of water, or from experience can you describe where the water level is in the hull?

Originally Posted by woodeneye

I am wondering how low the GIS sits in the water after being brought back upright after a capsize and it's full of water? Perhaps the cockpit tube drains would be useless anyway if the outlet wasn't above the surface. If so the venturi self bailers would be a better solution anyway.

Does anyone have a pic of their boat while full of water, or from experience can you describe where the water level is in the hull?

No photos, thank goodness, but I think maybe Mik & I are the only ones who've capsized a Goat. Him because he sails hard (while staring at the sheilas, no doubt), and me because I sail badly.

My experience was that she popped right back up quite readily. There was a good bit of water left in the boat once she came upright. The level was a few inches below the top of the daggerboard case. So she wasn't refilling as you bailed, but it took some exercise to get all the water out. An old fart like me... I wouldn't want to be doing it multiple times per day. Since my capsize came the first day sailing her... and I'd never skippered a small sailboat before... and we've never capsized her again... I don't worry too much about it.


"Life's a voyage that's homeward bound" -- Herman Melville

Originally Posted by woodeneye

I am wondering how low the GIS sits in the water after being brought back upright after a capsize and it's full of water? Perhaps the cockpit tube drains would be useless anyway if the outlet wasn't above the surface. If so the venturi self bailers would be a better solution anyway.

Does anyone have a pic of their boat while full of water, or from experience can you describe where the water level is in the hull?

From first principles of hydraulics...
All that is needed for drain tubes to work is that the surface level in the boat to be
higher than the surface outside. Buoyancy boxes fore & aft make sure of that.
Gravity will do the rest. However, as the difference is likely to be only an inch or so
(someone with the plans can do the relative volume calculations), it is likely to be a
steady draining rather than a dumping, and only to the bottom of the tubes. The few
inches remaining will need to be gotten rid of manually. Naturally, bigger tubes would
speed the process, as would adding extra buoyancy down low. Hope this helps.
cheers
AJ