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  1. #211
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    May 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodeneye View Post
    If so the venturi self bailers would be a better solution anyway.
    Venturi bailers will only let water IN when stationary after a capsize. You need to be going quite quickly, a good reaching speed, before they work, and this is the last thing you want to be doing with a boat heavy with water. If you do fit venturi bailers you have to bail out a lot of water by bucket before setting off to empty the rest with the venturi bailers. And if they were already open when you capsized, ie sailing fast in strong winds, they will not help whilst you hand bail just the opposite.

    I came back to dinghy sailing 9 years ago, and have capsized only twice. Once on purpose to test things, no problems in a light wind. The other time was racing in strong winds. I had been reading too many books about gybing downwind as you would tack upwind in shifts. One gybe too many and mainsheet caught on transom, most usual way of capsizing, and over she went very quickly. Much windier this time, far more water in the boat, much harder work allround.

    So although real conditions are more difficult than practice ones, the main point is capsizes are very rare. You might only have to bail once in 10 years. If you fit a venturi, as MIK says, you will have a leaky boat every time you sail in those 10 years. IMHO.

    Brian

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  3. #212
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Lindfield N.S.W.
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    62
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    Also, my only serious sailing injury was caused by falling on a venturi - the edge sliced a 200mm gash in my leg which then meant that the water I had to bail out by hand was not only cold and wet and salty but tinged red with my claret! Since then I have formed the view that they not only don't work but they are a menace!
    Cheers

    Jeremy
    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly

  4. #213
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Savannah GA USA
    Posts
    583

    Default How much water after capsize?

    Here's a video from a distance but you can get a little idea.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6YZyY4e-H0&feature=related"]YouTube - Righting a capsized Goat Island Skiff[/ame]

    MIK used to have one up showing him bailing Gruff. That one gives you a better idea but I couldn't find it.
    The "Cosmos Mariner,"My Goat Island Skiff
    http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w168/MiddleAgesMan/

    Starting the Simmons Sea Skiff 18
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/37973275@N03/

  5. #214
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hunter Valley NSW
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    69
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    1,759

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    Thanks guys. From the video, it seems to still float pretty high when brought upright. On its side, the daggerboard isn't above the water by much so it takes a nice big slurp on the way up.

    It appears that climbing back aboard is fine for one person at a time from the same side in it's full state, and the bouyancy is plenty. Maybe not two at a time from the same side? The gunwales are still nice and high enough so that if there was a chop, it won't take on too much more water, if any.

    Judging by the comments you've all made regarding leaks, it appears that the quality of these venturi type bailers is woeful these days. I never had any problems with leaks apart from a perished gasket, which was easily fixed. I can't recall the brands available at the time but they had a nice strong lever and clicking action to seal them.

    You've given me a bit to think about, so thanks all....

  6. #215
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
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    8,138

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    Howdy

    The good common ones are the RILEY brand in OZ. I don't think you will see anywhere else in the world. For racing they are rugged, but they do leak just a tiny bit after a while. There seems to be a basic problem with putting holes in a boat!!!



    There is a capsize and recovery set of pics here - I was showing off to some young women in a fishing boat ... they brought me my paddle back
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik...7594516743453/

    With two aboard it would be dead easy. One climbs aboard and starts bailing and the other just focusses on stopping the boat from capsizing again - staying outside the boat and holding onto the side (warm water) or getting aboard and just moving to keep things upright. One person for one job!

    Singlehanded ... The thing I would do differently next time if I was in open water in a strong wind is I would drop the sail. Possibly before righting the boat - make sure there is a knot in the end of the halyard!!!!!

    !!!!!!!!!!!!! (just to repeat!!!). Then right the boat and it will be much easier for one person to hold upright.

    Get rid of the water and rehoist the sail (probably after reefing down - carry ropes for this.)

    MIK

  7. #216
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    Apr 2009
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    Great pics there Mik!

    Yeah, when one is more chronologically advantaged, capsizing, righting and hopping back in can be accomplished without getting ones feet wet! My Dabchick didn't need bailing as it had no cockpit. They could be righted in about 15secs and then you were off again and as fast as the next boat too. The Sprog was a cinch also because its cockpit was very small and the "seat" was a closed in buoyancy tank. But if you did take a swim, getting onto the centreboard was a problem because it floated so high......especially as I wore a water weight jacket too, which added a few kilos. The GIS's board is very low, but a stirrup would still make things easier if needed.

    I'll look into the Rileys, thanks for that.

    By the way Mik, that sail on Gruff looks really nice . Who is the sailmaker?

  8. #217
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
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    414

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    Back in the day, I would crew on 420s, which are just a tad larger than Sprogs but very easy to capsize. I became adept at righting the boat and getting back into position without going in the water. My feet would get wet from whatever shipped into the cockpit, but everything above the knees would be dry. I'd already be hooked into the trapeze and smiling calmly by the time skipper hauled his soaking behind over the transom. He'd give me the evil eye and cuss me out, but I figured that was just his penalty for dumping us!

  9. #218
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    Jul 2005
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    That sail was made by Biting Midge's local Tarpaulin maker. He had some sailcloth and made it up.!

    MIK

  10. #219
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    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    That sail was made by Biting Midge's local Tarpaulin maker. He had some sailcloth and made it up.!

    MIK
    Clearly he missed his proper vocation!

  11. #220
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  12. #221
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    Feb 2008
    Location
    Grathem, NL
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    73
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    My sail was made by KenO'Brien from Adelaide. Cheaper, including transport and taxes, then to have it made in Holland! Looks good. Have not tried it yet. (se avatar for the sail)

    Ab
    Wer sich nicht bewegt, fuehlt die Fessel nicht /Rosa Luxemburg

    (If you don't move, you don't feel the chains)

  13. #222
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    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLing View Post
    My sail was made by KenO'Brien from Adelaide. Cheaper, including transport and taxes, then to have it made in Holland! Looks good. Have not tried it yet. (se avatar for the sail)

    Ab
    Amazing! Labour and postage costs are not exactly cheap here in Oz.

  14. #223
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodeneye View Post
    Amazing! Labour and postage costs are not exactly cheap here in Oz.
    I guess costs of labour in Holland is even more. For an hour working on your car they charge Euro 80 (AUS $ 148) excluding 19% VAT! The hourly rate for a sailmaker is some Euro 55.....

    greetings, Ab
    Wer sich nicht bewegt, fuehlt die Fessel nicht /Rosa Luxemburg

    (If you don't move, you don't feel the chains)

  15. #224
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  16. #225
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    hahaha ... cool.

    They are my agents in South Africa ... they do computer cutting of ply. They were quick!!!

    MIK

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