Thread: Goat Island Skiff (Guatemala)

Same here about reading both good and bad reviews of System Three. I'm pretty sure that if you first use their primer (which is awesome) and then their topcoat you end up with a first class result. It's the clearcoat over epoxy that I'm not so sure about although I've read good reviews of that application. The slightest possibility of having to redo the inside of the Goat due to peeling finish scared me off the S3 and back to the proven toxic LPU.

Oh and the gloss S3 is not as shiny as the gloss Perfection Plus.

I use all Racelite and no scratches. My scratches come from stuff rubbing around via trailering, there are not a lot of contact points for the blocks.

Of course my boat looks like living hell. I'm not Mr. Moneybags, so the Racelites works awesome I swear by them (for the money). Sometimes I get one that's a little bunk but if you get them at Duckworks they will take care of you.

Yeah, for me, it's the blocks, like the downhaul, and my vangouthaul rubbing around while trailering ...and the boom end blocks. Scratch, scratch. While sailing, and under tension, the yard block rubbing against the mast, and formerly my traveller blocks getting my inwales when downwind.

Howdy,

Read all of this ... it is more positive than it looks at the start.

The WB-LPU are very variable in behaviour depending on humidity. They need moisture in the air to cure properly. I've seen boats with slick paint on one side but the other side of the boat looks like it has been painted using a fence paling rather than one of the special fine painting rollers or a brush.

Same paint - same day. Just a slight variation on warmth.

And this happens reasonably frequently.

The agent for the System3 in Australia is Bote Cote. They were always pressuring Duck flat to sell more of the WB-LPU. Duck Flat is in Adelaide - the driest city in the driest state in the driest continent on earth - as the locals are proud of saying.

Unfortunately Winter is wet but it can be too wet with films of dampness condensing on any smooth surface

The stuff just doesn't work in this environment. I know experienced workers who have just had to repaint and repaint and repaint and it still doesn't work.

Finally the Chemist from Bote Cote came to Adelaide to try and promote it ... so duckflat gave him a can and an epoxied offcut and asked him to try. He couldn't make it work either. Bote Cote is in the humid air of Queensland, but I still know of people with variable results - the one with one side of the boat good and one bad was in Queensland.

At that point it was a bit of a mystery until Paul Ricelli (PAR on the forum) told me it was a moisture cure and very susceptible to humidity.

He is in Florida - which must be pretty ideal. But he still takes precautions. Chooses the time of the day, waits for a good weather report. Also he has often hung a curtain around the boat and hosed the floor and curtain with water before starting.

He is a professional - so it makes sense to take extra precautions as he can blow all his profit if he needs to redo with more material.

Remember of course that the boat needs a few coats. I would be inclined to try the LPU on the first coats and if it is a pain and not improving with practice then swap over to something else for the final coats.

Because of the water based nature, I think you would have to wait a few days for the water to go out of the film - but this is more of a precaution than based on knowledge. I have not used the product much at all ... because most of my building has been in the driest city, in the driest state, in the driest country on earth

MIK

There's a thread about boat paints on the WoodenBoat forum that I've been following. Several of the guys have been raving about the Fine Paints of Europe high gloss enamel. Several people have put up photos of the stuff on their large boats, some a five years of age or more. The shine is still as new, just like the two part LPUs.

The advantages over LPU convinced me to give it a try.

1. It is applied by fine bristle brush or foam brush. It levels beautifully and you have to really overdo it to make it run.

2. It is a conventional oil based enamel--no mixing.

3. Coverage of any color over any other color is guaranteed in two coats. Most of the time you get full coverage with a single coat.

4. No thinning is usually required.

5. Mineral spirits cleanup.

6. Touch-ups, even on years-old paint, are a breeze.

7. Superior adhesion is achieved with minimal prep--just have a clean surface; no sanding is required.

I bought a liter of the stuff when I was up in Virginia in August and used a small amount of it on my motorboat's stem to test it. I did no prep at all but I cannot scrap off the stuff after a one week cure. The old finish is two year old Brightsides, a one part LPU. Gloss is just as good as the LPU and now that it's several weeks old it feels just as hard as the old finish.

I will be applying this stuff during the winter when we take the boat out of service for a few weeks. I will do some prep sanding even though it doesn't seem to be required.

That sounds almost too good to be true. Will have to give it a try. Can you post a link to the discussion?

Here's the link:

Best wood hull paint

PCFord is first to mention Fine Paints of Europe, in post 5. Many of the posts following are testimonials to it. The incredible shine (after five seasons in the water) can be seen in the photo in post 13.

I forgot to mention my observations as my small test area dried. It remained "wet" for many hours--7 or 8 IIRC. It does not develop the quick "skin" you get with many modern paints. I live near the salt water marsh and we have lots of bugs around in all seasons so I fully expected to find a few stuck in the slow-to-skin paint. There were none! I can only surmise that the solvents repel most flying bugs.

That slow cure could be a problem in a dusty area, though.

Thanks for the link. The quick skin-over can ba a real challenge. It's so infuriating to have a paint skin over so fast that you have hardly any time to brush it but then remain liquid enough to sag.

Howdy ... many paints give you a window to recoat without prep.

However the big advantage of prep is the new coat can only ever be as good as the surface it goes on.

So that is the argument for prep.

MIK

I got on a roll cutting out plywood panels yesterday and then when I sat down at the end of the day I realised I'd made my first (?) mistake. Somehow I missed the curved side measurements for bulkhead #2 and cut both sides with straight edges.

The largest error is 2mm - am I right in thinking that this can be covered with the framing that goes on the front and back faces of this panel? I imagine it will make shaping and bevelling the framing more difficult? If needed I think I have enough spare plywood to re-cut this bulkhead.

Sail
On the sail front I have jumped into the Duckworks queue (the waiting time has now reduced from 12 weeks to 6 weeks) to have a sail made rather than making my own. I also asked Doyle-Ploch for a price last week but I never heard back from them.

Paint
I'm still looking into paint but leaning towards using the System Three LPU - mostly for logistical reasons. Further reading has indicated that the key conditions required to apply it are cool temperatures and high humidity. I should be able to provide both of these here (temperatures are pretty constant here year round 25C/75F during the day and 15C/60F at night) and I will need to erect a curtain anyway to minimise dust while painting - wetting this down should provide the humidity required. As we live on the water I think humidity is already at decent levels for the temperatures we have. I'll admit that I'm still a little nervous about this decision but it is time to make one...

Surly,
I have a DW sail, and I think it is not a bad choice at all. I am learning to love it! Mine is built very tough and very well. You will want to decide a few things about your sail order though before DW starts making it.
(1) do you want a standard goat sail with full battens (I would say no - skip the battens)
(2) do you want reef grommets, and where do you want them - better to have a set below the original first reef, for example, which was high on the sail
(3) do you want a cross-cut sail (like their photo) or a vertical cut sail - if I could change my sail, I would pick cross-cut
(4) do you want a loose foot or lashed foot, if you opt for loose foot, then you can skip the foot grommets, (or just move them to the new first reef line).
You could also ask them to extend the foot a bit then to overlap the boom (foot roach).

Originally Posted by surlyone

I got on a roll cutting out plywood panels yesterday and then when I sat down at the end of the day I realised I'd made my first (?) mistake. Somehow I missed the curved side measurements for bulkhead #2 and cut both sides with straight edges.

The largest error is 2mm - am I right in thinking that this can be covered with the framing that goes on the front and back faces of this panel? I imagine it will make shaping and bevelling the framing more difficult? If needed I think I have enough spare plywood to re-cut this bulkhead.

I think you'll be ok, but you'll certainly want to remember about it. Here's why:

If I'm not mistaken, the actual curvature is more a function of how the plywood twists. So the curve you omitted would have been an approximation only. MIK has often noted that epoxy can accommodate gaps as large as 4mm, so you should be within the margins of tolerance. The key will be to make sure you let the plywood sides take their own shape as you secure BH2 for gluing. Using screws to hold is the recommended technique; you'll just have to be sure to screw only at the corners of BH2 and not within the flat sections. Later, the frame arms will go in and have to be shaped to fit anyway. At that point, you'll be covering the error and you'll be right as rain.

Hope that makes sense. If not, I can throw more words at it.

Originally Posted by warm beer

Surly,
I have a DW sail, and I think it is not a bad choice at all. I am learning to love it! Mine is built very tough and very well. You will want to decide a few things about your sail order though before DW starts making it.
(1) do you want a standard goat sail with full battens (I would say no - skip the battens)
(2) do you want reef grommets, and where do you want them - better to have a set below the original first reef, for example, which was high on the sail
(3) do you want a cross-cut sail (like their photo) or a vertical cut sail - if I could change my sail, I would pick cross-cut
(4) do you want a loose foot or lashed foot, if you opt for loose foot, then you can skip the foot grommets, (or just move them to the new first reef line).
You could also ask them to extend the foot a bit then to overlap the boom (foot roach).

Thank you for raising these very good points that I should have checked on before purchasing. I sort of made the assumption that the sail would mostly conform to the one in MIKs plans.
1. I do know that duckworks no longer include battens on their GIS sails (unless requested at extra cost) - that is clearly stated on the web page. I haven't requested battens.
2. I requested three rows of reefing points. I had assumed that these would be evenly distributed along the luff of the sail which would put the bottom row around 300mm, or perhaps more, lower than the bottom reefing point in MIK's plan. I've noted the trend towards a lower first reefing point so I'll have to confirm this.
3. Didn't realise this is an option - I'll have to ask.
4. Again I assumed it would be as per the plans and have a laced foot - I'll have to confirm.

Cheers

Matt

Originally Posted by davlafont

I think you'll be ok, but you'll certainly want to remember about it. Here's why:

If I'm not mistaken, the actual curvature is more a function of how the plywood twists. So the curve you omitted would have been an approximation only. MIK has often noted that epoxy can accommodate gaps as large as 4mm, so you should be within the margins of tolerance. The key will be to make sure you let the plywood sides take their own shape as you secure BH2 for gluing. Using screws to hold is the recommended technique; you'll just have to be sure to screw only at the corners of BH2 and not within the flat sections. Later, the frame arms will go in and have to be shaped to fit anyway. At that point, you'll be covering the error and you'll be right as rain.

Hope that makes sense. If not, I can throw more words at it.

My reading of the plans is that framing of the front face (finishing flush with the side of the curved plywood then bevelled) should be attached now and the longer arms for the rear face are attached later. Does this sound right? If so then I think I can still recover from this by making the framing for sides the correct curved shape and also making a small adjustment for the bevel of these two side frames.

Am I on the right track? Is this adjustment going to be to complicated to worry about?