Thread: Hello, new GIS build by Simon in ST Pete FL

Originally Posted by SimonLew

Work on the bulkheads is going well. I am epoxy coating the parts before assembly and masking where the glue joints will be. Is this necessary? The secondary bond between two roughed up epoxy surfaced should be plenty strong, no? Can't tell for sure but from Joost's pictures it looks like he coated everything without masking and then assembled the boat and it has held together. Sure would save some time to not mask, especially the hull sides.

Hello,

Yes, well spotted: I pre-coated the plywood sheets first (save for the underside of the bottom panel) before cutting the panels and gluing the timber and the parts together without any masking.

I didn't take this decision lightly however and have weighed a lot evidence, opinions, etc. before coming to this approach.

I was also very careful in making sure that the panels were fully prepped for this: after epoxying them I washed down the panels with a water-vinegar solution before sanding them and after sanding again washing them once more with water-vinegar and lastly a wash down with clean water only.

No glue lines have failed on me. I had not put in the bolts in the rudder stock as specified by MIK (did not like the looks of them but please put them in) and when the rudder stock cracked on the middle of Loch Ness in Scotland in a good force 5, it was not the glue line that failed but the wood itself (rudder stock was later fixed by the cracks with unthickned epoxy and putting 3 bolts in through tiller and the stock).

This pre-coated/non-masking approach has worked for me, and I would build a second boat exactly the same way taking the same precautions.

I know people are speaking about the chemical bonds versus true bonds with epoxy penetrating the wood/plywood etc. Whilst I do agree that with timber the epoxy might penetrate the wood for a bit (please note that all the timber bits that I glued on were not pre-coated), the plywood itself is already built up from several glued veneers where the epoxy cannot penetrate the veneers much anyway. My guess is that the plywood will fail (splits along the veneers) before the epoxy gives way.

I hope I have not opened another can of worms now!

Best wishes, Joost

Howdy

There is no fundamental problem with secondary bonding - gluing to surfaces that have been previously coated, cured, and prepared by sanding.

However where the preparation has not been done adequately then the masking method is more foolproof.

I tend to just put both on the table and let the builder choose the one that suits them. hav

I think most people have some sort of feel for the method that matches their degree of care and experience. Even before getting experience.

I think this is one of the miracles of boat building.

Best wishes
Michael

The yard is almost done. Time to put together a sail wish list. I have no experience with traditional sails so have been scouring these forums for tips. Any and all recommendations are welcome including sail makers. I'm leaning towards Stuart at Dabbler Sails but am open to others.

This is what I'm looking at so far:

1. Add a 3rd reef at about 690mm from foot.
2. Loose footed with stiff boom
3. Cross cut, modern construction favoring performance over traditional looks.
4. Battens? Clint mentioned leech battens. I'm a big fan of full battens on sloop mains. I understand that they de-power the GIS sail. What is the latest thinking?
5. Anything else I'm missing?

As always thanks for the help

My GIS sail was Dabbler-Stuart's first and I'm very pleased with it. He supplied full length 5/8" fiberglass battens that fit into pockets per the drawings. The forward ends are captive, however, with all adjustment taking place aft. Since I was only able to take it sailing twice last spring I can't tell you how the battens affect performance. I yield to MIK's advice to leave the battens at home for best performance, using them only when you want to de-power for a more leisurely sail.

Stuart's extensive experience prompted him to suggest a couple changes: he wanted to make it loose-footed so jiffy reefing could be set up. I rejected that change. He also did not like the idea of omitting traditional rope trim; we went around about that but when he said the rope would be only 3/16" diameter I caved.

There are a few pictures of my sail at my Photobucket link but none of my Goat under sail.

How is reefing different on loose v.s. laced sail foot? I'm assuming you reef it just like a sloop main: lower halyard, attach tack and clew reef lines to boom, gather sail in middle and tie off with lines through reef grommets, tighten halyard.

How does Dabbler's sail compare in cost to the DuckWorks' sail?

I have not gotten a quote yet as I'm still defining the specification.

The Dabbler sail as delivered was about the same as Duckworks' basic sail. IIRC DW added for reef points and shipping which made theirs a little more. Stuart's reputation among traditional small boat sailors is what sold me, however. I've read he made all of the sails for Robb White's boats. He also included a sail bag--long and skinny--capable of storing the sail with the yard and boom attached.

My memory may have let me down re: jiffy reefing. Now that I've had time to cogitate it may have been more adjustability of shape via an outhaul that was used to push for a loose-footed sail. I preferred MIK's simpler setup so that's what I have.

Howdy,

A fine weather reef could be done that way Simon, but in rough weather I just drop the lot and tie in the reef, ease the downhaul and rehoist, Retension the downhaul.

I would just have eyes for the intervening reef point and the minimum number required - maybe three. Use a shock cord threaded through and wrapped spiral wise.

The long sailbag is definitely worth having.

MIK

I'm betraying my lack of experience sailing little open boats with reefable sails. Lots of time on a Hobie 16 but you don't reef, just hang on

Makes sense to drop the whole thing when it's rough rather than fighting with it all partially hoisted and the boat not staying head to wind. Thanks for saving me from learning that the hard way MIK!

Originally Posted by SimonLew

I'm betraying my lack of experience sailing little open boats with reefable sails. Lots of time on a Hobie 16 but you don't reef, just hang on

Amen brother!

You can use the same method with the Goat too. It is easier to right than a hobie but requires more bailing!

MIK

The hang-on method of "reefing" will definitely be tried. Especially in the summer when the water is so warm, you want to capsize. I want to see what the Goat can do. Now, how to rig a trapeze ...

haha .... I would use some of the purpose made rigging spectra - hollow line like a water skiing rope but made of spectra. Easy to splice.

Trapeze jackets are too expensive though and you will need dual tiller extensions.

MIK