Results 46 to 59 of 59
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15th December 2020, 09:44 PM #46SENIOR MEMBER
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- Apr 2008
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- Tilburg, the Netherlands
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15th December 2020 09:44 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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16th December 2020, 02:27 AM #47Novice
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- Dec 2020
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- VT
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- 10
Depending on the hull shape, the flat cockpit sole creates ample space beneath for stowage and/or flotation. In the ilur, the designer chose storage space for oars, anchor and rode. Yes, open boats will likely require stowage of gear in boxes and dry bags, and it is what limits the Ilur to two, and optimally one for cruising. Even if your camping style is minimalistic, there is abundant gear to tote. Except for food and water, the gear for an overnight is much the same as for a week on the water. Here, the clutter of gear on one side of the CB, and bedroll on the other, 4 days or so into a week on the water:
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17th December 2020, 01:15 AM #48
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18th December 2020, 09:34 PM #49
Oar lengths for wider boats were mentioned as a problem.
There are solutions
Carbon Fiber Ferrules for Oars or pushpoles - Duckworks Boat Builders Supply
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3rd January 2021, 06:16 PM #50
Christophe,
When the Sea Pearl goes over ... what would you guess the distance is between the mast partner and the water when the boat is on its side?
One of the advantage of boats with fore and aft buoyancy tanks is that they sit low in the water on their sides so the mast is more parallel with the water (ie close at the partner to the water.
Boats with side buoyancy sit up out of the water so the partner is well above the water when the boat is on its side with masthead/s in the water.
1/ only the tip of the mast is in the water.
2/ The hull is already well heeled towards the water so the hull weight is bearing down on the mast more.
With End buoyancy the boat ends up with very large amounts of water to bail out after an easier recovery.
I'm thinking ... maybe I can try to get the best of both worlds. And the Sea Pearl is useful to examine as it is probably something around the same size.
Anyone else with experience with the SP is welcome to pipe in.
Cheers ... and Happy New Year
MIK
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3rd January 2021, 10:27 PM #51Novice
- Join Date
- Dec 2020
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- VT
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- 10
Happy New Year, All!
Mik, the forum software on my tablet was set so as not to save “sent” PM’s—if you want to post my message to about boats which look after tired sailors as a critical measure of dinghy cruising performance, please feel free to share it here.
I have a file of photos which were taken when we were trying to turtle proof the Sea Pearl, but not sure I can figure out how to post them here; I can get them to Christophe if he doesn’t already have most of them, or I can get them to you via e-mail if that would help.
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3rd January 2021, 10:37 PM #52Novice
- Join Date
- Dec 2020
- Location
- VT
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- 10
I think I just sorted the posting bit. Here is a SP moments after going over, with mast head bouyancy to prevent turtling, but it shows the approximate angle at which the mast tops strike the water in a capsize.
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Here is what happened after down flooding filled the hull. Very stable. So stable that it was almost impossible to right the boat by a single sailor. Once the boat was righted, the hull was Awash, and bailing in anything other than a dead calm would not have been possible.
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3rd January 2021, 11:46 PM #53
That would be great to see.
There are two main buoyancy setups and they both have good and bad points.
End Tank Buoyancy
Boat lies on side with mast tip in water - mast is fairly parallel to the water so a large part of the masthead can resist turning turtle
Hull weight is downward and not leaning on the mast much reducing the chance of turning turtle. Again because the mast is relatively close and parallel to the water
Boat is easy to roll upright
Chance of boat blowing away from crew (why did they let go) is less.
If boat does drift away it is likely to capsize again slowing its escape.
Less stable on side but the gunwale can be pulled lower to the water to make rolling back into the boat easier
Once aboard crew have to pay attention to boat balance first and foremost to prevent a second capsize
Lots of bailing.
Side Tank Buoyancy
Boat floats high and leans onto mast making a turtle capsize more likely
Only tip of mast is touching water ... as more of the mast goes into the water the hull leans harder on it
Boat is ok to roll upright if it is still on its side
If upside down it is stable and hard work to roll onto its side
On its side it gets blown along very quickly
When it is upright there is no water inside.
if crew loses grip the boat will blow away or sail away very fast
Freeboard is increased so harder to get back into boat .. important to plan the method in advance.
Back inside ... no or little bailing
Boat is stable.
A note for the general audience - The bad points for both can be reduced with good planning and practice of capsize. If capsizing and unsure what the boat will do ... IT IS YOUR FAULT. If you don't know what the boat will do then you probably don't know exactly what to do either - so practice in safe conditions is really important. If practicing do not tether the boat .. the wind coming sideway to the hull assists reboarding and reduces the risk of capsize as the boat is more likely to fall over one way rather than both ways.
So it really is a case of swings and roundabouts, informed decisionmaking, practice.
There is a third group with buoyancy under the floor. Behaviour depends on how much volume is there. And it almost doubles the build time - though this can be reduced with stitch and fillet of the underfloor components. In boats just above the 16ft range to get enough volume it can mean the cabin sole is so high that sitting normally (or getting clearances between knees and oars) in the boat is compromised in boats unless the freeboard is high ... which has other downsides.
Happy New Year to all!
MIK
MIK
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4th January 2021, 12:04 PM #54
This is worth re-quoting and re-reading for those who have not done so already. There is a deep culture of not capsizing boats in the small-traditional boat crowd here in the US, I imagine the same elsewhere. It must be done if any solo sailing or cruising and is going to be attempted.
It should be noted in the above pictures that I have two mast head floats for redundancy. One barely kept her up, if it broke off we would be sunk. You can't have the minimum amount, you need redundant systems.
Mik, for your musing, the Sea Pearl has a bow flotation tank, and two large styrofoam blocks under the thwarts in the aft cockpit. If I had ballast tanks (none in this one) and they were empty of water, they would have provided side buoyancy, but I don't know if it would have been sufficient to keep her from rolling over. Maybe. Maybe not.
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4th January 2021, 09:07 PM #55
Great ... the buoyancy layout of the SP is valuable information.
I know you loved the performance of the SeaPearl and its handling ... the feeling you could turn it just about on a dime and sneak into any tricky anchorage.
Did that nice handling change much between tanks filled and tanks empty? How was speed affected in light winds?
I've been poring over some of the SeaPearl forums to pick up anything I can. Been an admirer for a long time.
I'm tempted by water ballast too. But if the boat goes over much further than 90 degrees then the ballast is also pushing the mast under.
Not so with a heavy centreboard .. but then you have to raise and lower it .. and lock it down so it doesn't retract.
It is not an easy nut to crack by any means.
MIK
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7th January 2021, 11:31 AM #56New Members
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- Dec 2020
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- Central Queensland
- Age
- 46
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I've been working through the back catalog of Furled Sails Podcasts (Bolger, Beuhler and Mik(!) interviews are great!). Christy & Noel were (possibly still are) passionate owners of a SeaPearl - it was positively mentioned often. Applying your "Smaller, lighter Simpler, less volume, more easily driven. The things that make the GIS and Viola work well" Mik, sounds very interesting!
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11th January 2021, 10:00 PM #57
Another Swedish canoe ...
The midship section totally reminds me of a starboat. It does seem sticky in light wind.
Remember these are not light boats with quite a lot of ballast.
MIK
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13th January 2021, 11:38 PM #58Novice
- Join Date
- Dec 2020
- Location
- VT
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- 10
The French NA Giles Montaubin has drawn a number of raid type boats, some of which may be worth looking over as a way to see how the balance of choices shakes out in actuality. Here is one of his smaller designs, “Foxy Lady”:
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Another of his designs, the Lili 6.1 has some very interesting features like twin canted daggerboards, which would complicate the build considerably. It has a cuddy for minimalist shelter, and to my tastes the after cockpit is fussy, but the rig and it’s deployment should be familiar to folks who have sailed Sea Pearls:
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22nd January 2021, 01:51 PM #59
How about starting from a Wayfarer?
I know I am late to the party, but this thread could be microtargeted at me. I currently sail a GIS and love it except that I want to do more cruising in San Francisco Bay, an area where there are big winds (reliably 15+kts) and almost no legal camping shoreline. I am also a bit appalled by the volume of water in the GIS when she comes upright. I've long been intending to build a Caledonia Yawl, but I am currently building a Viola to tow behind my bicycle (that's for other purposes than cruising.)
Anyway, the discussion is fascinating. I personally don't want to build a cabin boat. Too much building time added, and too much space taken away. I'd probably build a Wayfarer if plans were available (and there are almost none on the US west coast). If Mik were to design something like a Wayfarer, I am sure he could cut its weight pretty dramatically. Along the lines of Cristophe's notion to raise the floor of a CY and remove the thwart, I think that could be a winning idea on a Wayfarer, opening up a large flat platform for camping purposes. Alternatively, James McMullen on the WoodenBoat forum built a hinged thwart into his sail-and-oar double-ender. A clever design maybe could hinge on both halves of the thwart to open up the boat completely.
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