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31st May 2009, 05:06 PM #31
Richard...
Of course we are watching your build... us inexperienced and unwashed masses absorb knowledge and wisdom from every source we can.
If you do make two starboard sides, does that mean you are building two boats, and the next step is to build two port sides?
Keep up the good work so the rest of us can learn something.
Bob
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31st May 2009, 08:52 PM #32
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31st May 2009, 10:50 PM #33
Howdy, My feelings are that the scarf join is much less elagant than the buttstrap and is far less traditional.
It's like the whole "build with no holes" idea that gets flicked around as some sort of "perfect job". Wood has always been held together with holes!
Carvel planking was always joined with butts, so it reflects traditional practice much better.
Keels and heavy pieces of some dimension were scarphed, usually with a step in then and stopwaters and things .. but planking .. there was no way to scarf that reliably until there were reliable glues. But thin bits like planking ... not very useful.
I am not really saying that scarfs are bad in any sense. But that there really is no better or worse way providing the strength of the join is there and it fits other functions.
Personally I don't like scarfs much - I think they are unsightly in most cases where I see them. However if I was building a nice clinker boat ... I would be agreeing a 100% with daddles! I really don't want a butt strap every 8 ft in every plank!!! YUK.
But in a boat with big panels like this .. it makes a lot of sense. Does a lot of joining in one shot.
So this shows too ... I am watching your thread with bated breath Richard!!!
MIK
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31st May 2009, 10:54 PM #34
Like your new avatar image BobWes ... the one at the back looks like you!
MIK
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1st June 2009, 09:12 AM #35
No-one pushed the pause button, some bugger nicked the remote
I hadn't considered the scarf not being 'traditional' - as far as historic use goes, you'd be right of course ... but then much of what we do these days fails on that measure of 'traditional' because of the changes wrought by epoxy. I personally view the term 'traditional' to refer more to the attitudes behind why something is done, rather than exact method itself. Traditional boat building was about using the best tools, methods and materials to do the job required (which is why the butt joints work so well in this design), NOT blindly doing things in one particular way. This is why Mik's rigging ideas are 'traditional' - they're an effective and efficient way of doing the job required, the fact that many of them (all?) are based on earlier practice just shows that the man does his homework rather than being a slave to racing yacht practice.
Richard
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1st June 2009, 11:53 AM #36
Howdy Richard,
It is interesting to see where various biases come from. I have noticed people with shipwright's backgrounds do prefer scarfs in ply .. and that is your background too. Not to mention a bunch of rather nice clinker ply boats too!
Mine is from ply sheet boatbuilding .. so I have a healthy respect for the speed and cleanness of a butt join on the outside of the boat.
I accept absolutely your point about joining it up then marking it out being a cool method. Unfortunately it is not always possible to get the biggest possible boat out of the minimum number of sheets with a layout that will allow this. Not so much from the length you lose, but that things cannot be laid out adjacent to the edges of the sheet that would allow this.
Best wishes
MIK
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1st June 2009, 06:34 PM #37
Right. I lifted the sides tonight ... and they left the shed floor where it was
Remember I commented that I'd suspected one side of shifting? I laid the two sides on top of each other (whew, one starbord and one port, I only have to make one boat ). With the two ends of the bottom lined up, she's 1 - 2mm out in the middle. Or, with the middle and one end lined up, there's a short 3mm at the other end. Not perfect and I guess I could screw the sides together and make them identical, but I suspect Mik will tell me not to bother.
I fired up the random orbital and cleaned up all the excess poxy ... and the blue paint from the bottom of the tool box (see above pic) that had decided to glue itself to the timber. Naturallty, I couldn't be bothered hooking up my dust collector and now the shed is full of dust
Richard
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2nd June 2009, 12:59 AM #38
Howdy Richard, I wouldn't worry about the widthways adjustment, but I would probably be tempted to get rid of the length difference, Nobody will ever see it I guess and as I planed it off I would be conversing with myself as to whether it was worth worrying or not.
See I can write like a beat poet ... even dig through existential angst.
MIK
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2nd June 2009, 01:22 AM #39
You misunderstood Mik - the length is spot on. If one end and the middle line up, the other end is a little under 3mm out in width. But as you say, it's nuffin to fuss about, though the perfectionist inside would like to get rid of it ... but if I listened to him, I'd go mad, particularly with the way I slap things together - I'm rather pleased it was this close.
Richard
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2nd June 2009, 01:29 AM #40
I would leave that one as is too.
MIK
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23rd June 2009, 04:56 PM #41
I was finally able to get out and do some damage ... err ... work today. I'm deviating slighly from the 'plan of events' as specified in Mik's wee booklet in that I'm cutting out all the bulkheads now. This is because they'll be framed from bits out of my collection of timber leftovers and it's easier to dedicate a stick to a location if you've got the bulkheads cut already. It might also allow me to do some bulk coating and framing - it might not either.
So, a couple of bulkheads and the funny template for shaping the gunwales were cut out during a leisurely hour or so while the rain beat gently on the tin roof of my shed. The compulsory picture shows me shaping the inside curve of that template - those workmate benches are brilliant (especially as I got mine free ).
I'm also planning something a wee bit radical ie, there's an opportunity to screw up. When you glue the frames to the bulkheads, you leave the frame overhanging the edge by a set amount. You then bevel the edge of the frame - basically from the outer corner of the frame to the outer corner of the ply, this is to fit in with the tapers of the hull. Rather than trim the bulkheads to the line now, I'm going to leave them rough cut, glue the frames on, then bevel from the outer corner of the frame to the line on the ply. One could argue that this will give a dead flat edge to the finished bulkhead rather than leave a small triangular gap at the edge of the ply, but it's really to save a bit of effort trimming the bulkheads to shape now. The tricky bit will be in locating the framing timber correctly but in the words of the immortal Baldrick, "I have a cunning plan ... that can not fail".
Richard
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24th June 2009, 05:41 PM #42
To which I must reply ...
"does it involve rats?"
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24th June 2009, 06:51 PM #43
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29th June 2009, 07:18 PM #44
Well, I managed some pottering and measuring and marking out and cutting over the weekend and today - jee, it's amazing how much time you can waste just dithering when you want to
Anyways, I now have four bulkheads (yes you cynic, they're all different ... I checked ), a transom and the fore and aft seat tops. Normally, I'd use a joggle stick to fit the seat tops to the actual boat but this time, took a deep breath and trusted the designer's drawings (last time I did that, the drawings were inches out and the wrong shape ... but that was a different designer)
So here's the damage.
Now I can start picking through my stack of sticks trying to find framing material. Won't that be fun
Richard
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29th June 2009, 09:12 PM #45
Good on yer Daddles, nice to see you on the tools, life seems to have gotten in the way of serious shed work recently.
(I agree about the Black Adder litter, that series was a masterpiece of realism)
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