Thread: MSD Rowboat in Brisbane

Gawd, they're becoming as common as muck. Best of luck with it. I'm not sure whether to be all competitive and to try to keep ahead of you or whether to let you sneak past me so I can learn from your problems

Richard

Hey,

Both of you have Clint and the young people building at the Compass Projects who are the experts (for the moment?")

MIK

My suggestions:
1) Give the sheer a little spring, maybe 1/4" between the first b'head and stem. This is to help the look of the sheer as the flare comes into the stem. You could also reduce the freeboard by 1/4" midships. If you guys remind me via my work email, I will put a batten on the boat and play with it to get a better numbers.
2) Make a closed gunwale rather than the open gunwale to make things simpler yet not reduce stiffness. Inwale notches into stem and dead ends at transom. Quarter knees are installed over inwale. Easy. Make like easier by prefinishing the inwale by running the bottom inside edge along a router and doing the roundover before it is installed.
3) Either put a hatch in midship seat or use bronze or G10 tubing to connect the limber holes under the midseat bulkheads rather than having open limber holes.
4) Use bronze wires to connect the planks to the stem. Screws don't work very well unless you use hardwood. There just isn't enough stem to use long screws. If the bevel is off, the plank will fair into the stem better than if you force the plank into the bevel by driving screws. Until we figure out that bevel in the stem as drawn, I'd rather see people use a technique like the wires. I'll probably do another MSD next school year and plan to do all the above and do a better job of recording it. We build 12+ boats a year with newbie kids, so it can get mixed up!

I am a real sucker for the spaced out inwale. But if it is still stiff enough I am happy for builders to decide for themselves.

MIK

Thanks for the replys
I have been following the other builds and appreciate your tips.
After emails with MIK I have already decided to leave the sheer side of the sides rough cut until I can set a batten along and see the fit for myself. Then I can make my own mistakes
I saw the photos from Clint and crew of the stem and the curve there soI thought it best to leave a bit to play with, epoxy is wonderful stuff but I dont fancy edge gluing a 2 mm strip of 6mm ply.
I dont know yet about the closed inwhale, it is a lot quicker to build but last year I saw a canadian canoe built by Hairymick ( who sometimes comes here) and the open inwhale is really pretty done with contrasting timbers.
For the midseat area ( and I know there is another thread) I was thinking of doing the tunnell thing with PVC and some hatches or something towards the sides simply to stop me sliding my self too far sideways to reach for the fish I plan to catch. The boat has a lot of flare and I dont want to tip over and become bait.
I was thinking of doing the stem with a stitch and glue fillet for a start, then make a stempiece to fit, one inside, another outside. I have done that before and it worked then
Mr Daddles, I dont plan to be competitve, I am building as time and life permit. But I would like to finish while I can remember why I started
I will post when I get some more done
Thanks again for all your help
Tom

Tom, I have not tried this but it occurred to me to paint the batten white to really help sighting it. It would stand out from the plywood surface and be easier to read. You could just use the rails as the battens.

Remember that there is the effect of flare...the inwale (however you do it, closed or open) needs to be planed down afterwards.

You could make a stem piece, just make it a little big....it is easy enough to pop out and adjust the bevel accordingly. It'd be easier to keep the plank edges together with the stem in there...but if you've done it before....

Sounds like you've read a lot of feedback.

I have made some progress.
The frames and transom are cut, shaped and partly glued. Thats right, I have opened the epoxy and started making my mistakes permanent Next item is to final shape the sides and glue panels together and add chine logs.
I probably should clean up the garage a bit so I have some space.
Hmm
At least I have started

Bye for now
Tom

I finally got some photos out of the camera. With a bit of luck I can put them here with some comments.(excuses?)
When I first started marking out the panels for cutting out I found that the sheerline near the bow was a bit concave when the batten was laid out. I am sure I measured correctly. This photo shows how bad it looked. I must say that this is bad looking at it flat, it may turn out that because th boat has so much midsection flare the curve on the plans will look sweet in 3D
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomtreb...7622153010451/



I had read Clints reports of his kids build and emaided MIK and the advice (and my instinct was) to leave a bit to play with. Which I have done.The next photo shows the thin design line, the thick line the natural curve of battern line.
I actually made my sheer oversize of the thick line, both side the same (I hope) Easier to trim down than edge glue 6mm ply.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomtreb...7622153010451/



I have been more or less following the designers instructions although the sequence is a bit out of order. I glued the sides together and attached the chinelogs. I mentioned on Daddles thread that I was using steel washers to stop the screws from digging in.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomtreb...7622153010451/

They come off easy the next evening. Usually. Some of them need a tap with hammer and screwdriver to loosen,
Glueing on the chinelog was not as messy as I feared, I fitted it dry, I predrill before putting screws in and the bend is not that severe, so there wasnt as much glue in the wrong place as I had feared. I held the ply vertical. laid the chinelog on its side resting on the clamps, buttered it up with glue, rolled it onto its edge and screwed it together There was a bit of mess but easy to clean up and I am happy I got enough glue for a good joint.



The filling of the holes is tedious. I use a short straw to pick up a few drops of epoxy and dribble it into the hole.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomtreb...7622153010451/
Maybe I should call this boat colander?
No I wont
In the meantime I have been making frames and other bits
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomtreb...7622153010451/
And I have done some precoatng of the inside of the sides
So that is where I am at.
Thanks again to those builders who have gone before me and shared their knowledge
Tom

Ah Tom, you've given us a list of URLs for the same image ... so I cheated and followed the flickr album instead

I see you're building the bulkheads and then coating them - it made sense for me.

When it comes to filling the holes, Mik uses the bag of glue method ... which I haven't tried. In the past (haven't filled holes on this boat yet), I've used a syringe filled with thickened epoxy. You'll find you can reuse the syringes because the epoxy doesn't stick to the plastic though you do need a good, strong piece of wire up the nozzle to force the plug of set epoxy out. I like the syringe because you can put the nozzle into the hole and fill from the bottom - it's quick and easy. I will give Mik's bag of glue method a go, partly because it's been recommended by blokes who do this for a living (the Duck Flats boys) and partly because I've run out of syringes .

Looking good mate. Keep it up.

Richard

Regarding the screws - the photos aren't good enough to tell what you're using so forgive me if I'm preaching to the converted.

I use gyprock screws, not wood screws. They have a very sharp point and a very coarse thread - they pull themselves into raw timber really easily and I've found no need for predrilling when using them. The downside is that they've got a countersunk head but your washers (or the ply pads I use) will handle that. On a plus, you can get them in really big buckets at Bunnies

Richard

Thanks Richard, I should have checked.
And I was starting to think the photo thing was simple I will try to fix it later
Tom

Hi Tom,

The photo thing is not too bad. You have the basic elements right.

On flickr don't copy the page reference, but instead Right Click on the photo.
Select "copy link location" from the menu.

Now go to the forum and put the cursor in the message you are editing where you want the pic to appear.
Above the editing window there is an icon that looks like mountains and when you hover over the text "insert image" appears.
A window will appear - right click the words in the little window and select "paste"

The address of the actual photo from flickr will be pasted in. Save and the pic will appear. YOu have 24 hours to make edits, but after that you can't change anything. Some just put all the pics in the following post if they miss the deadline.

MIK

Thanks MIK
I missed the 24 hr limit (I didnt know about that either) so I will repost later.
Tom

Well I am trying again to get the pictures linked
The first couple of pictures were of the sheerline in 2d as marked out
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3445/...e7b45404_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/...0bf26178_o.jpg
And I was making frames and had precoated the inside of the sides
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2582/...a18774d4_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2600/...9f8b22b5_o.jpg
I hope these turn out
Thanks Mik for your help
Tom