Thread: Man overboard!!! Learning to sail PDRs and others in stronger wind.

Excellent!!!

Thanks Mik and everyone. I plan to go out this long weekend a fair bit to practise. I will try apply all the lessons learnt here and give a full report...

Maximum I would pull the centreboard up in stronger winds as a beginner - probably about 350mm.

Well, I think as a beginner, it can stay down all the time, I'm not racing, I need safety while learning...

Going downwind or in stronger winds it can make the boat more stable ... or really less unstable to pull about a foot of board up.

It reduces the heeling moment between the middle of the sail and the middle of the centreboard and allows the boat to sideslip a little in the worst gusts upwind.

Downwind it reduces the effect of sudden course changes - as sudden course change can push the centreboard sideways through the water which it will resist if fully down.

How much ... in a pdr in strong gusting wind when it was hard to hold the boat up I would pull up about a foot 300mm of board. Downwind in strong stuff I would pull up a little bit more than a foot but make sure the sail would not hit it on the way over. Should be plenty of space.

In light or moderate winds downwind I would pull more up - maybe only leaving a foot in the water.

MIK

I have always read that a balanced lug was self vanging unless the luff is too stretchable. Mik, could you comment on this?

Thanks,

Ron (eagerly awaiting Mk III)

Originally Posted by sailman58

I have always read that a balanced lug was self vanging unless the luff is too stretchable. Mik, could you comment on this?

Thanks,

Ron (eagerly awaiting Mk III)

Ron,

I'm not Mik but while you're waiting for him you could do a search for "kicker" with author "keyhavenpotter" you'll find good stuff on the balanced lug vang.

I'm still building so I don't have any personal experience but from what I've gathered a vang isn't necessary if the downhaul is positioned to apply good tension on both the luff and leech.

Brad

Howdy Ron,

It is a question of degree. Correct twist is probably the most single important control over a sail to give good performance - providing the sail shape is not too bad.

A sprit boomed rig is completely self vanging, but it is hard to adjust the amount of self vanging without throwing lots of other settings out.

A bermudan, gaff or gunter rig with a specific boom vang (kicker) controls twist very well if it is powerful. A three to one with a bit of stretchy rope is nowhere good enough. There is some cost in this. It also can mean the twist is controlled mostly independently of other variables.

The balance lug rig is naturally self vanging without any extra gear. The vanging is not as effective as the others above because of the reduced mechanical advantage (distance between the luff and the downhaul) and stretch in the halyard if using crappy rope.

The other conventionally boomed rigs without vangs are pretty bad.

Sails without booms are the worst.

The thing with the balance lug rig and sprit boomed rig is they do give you some vanging with no extra gear - very simple and cheap and quick to rig.

Lose out a bit of performance on the vanged/kickered rigs and completely outperform the unvanged boats with conventional booms.

Best wishes
Michael

and if you add a vang to your balanced lug as Keyhavenpotterer does with his Scow,
you get the best of both worlds at only minimal extra expense.

Howdy,

I would tend to put the vang into the category of racing gear. Within the sizes of boats we are talking about the unvanged balance lug is a fine rig.

I think that here some more experience in the boat is the main answer.

The vang does add a lot of complication to a new sailor because it means that the downhaul and vang have to be adjusted in sympathy - unlike a conventionally boomed rig where (usually) you can adjust one without affecting the other. Not necessarily an easy thing to wrap your head around.

But to get the last bit of performance a vang could be very worthwhile.

MIK

Well Well, What a great afternoon on the water. Just a nice gentle breeze. 2 of us in the boat. Started out reefed, but soon undone it and want all out. We got up the 3.8kts with 2 heavies onboard... the boat felt great, easy to control, no issues.
Changes is made:
- Raked the mast backwards so that is was as per spec.
- Adjusted the halyard pulley on the yard to the top of the yard a bit more.
- Made sure the downhaul was TIGHT, however, I will be moving the cleat from the side of the mas to the rear, as it gets in the way...
- Did not let the yard go past 90' going downwind.

All great! Just had SOOOO much fun!

LONG LIVE THE MK2 OZ.

Terrific Nick, great stuff.

Brian

Bravo!

In up to 10 knots of breeze it is probably fairly safe to let the boom out to near square, even if the yard goes a bit further out. It is only when the wind gets stronger that you need to be quite cautious or work at understanding the method up above so you can ease it further.

It is kinda something to be aware of rather than a strict rule.

But what you have done is great - you have made some changes and felt the difference. This exactly what sailing is about - trying things and being objective about the result.

MIK