Thread: Another OZ MK2 PDRacer build in Sydney "Wood Duck"

A re-reading of the needle table in the sewing machine manual does in fact show a #18 needle - for leather and suede. Interesting. Also, the "16 denim" needle lists sailcoth (although not polytarp ;) as one of the fabrics that it is suited to. Note that this seems to be different from the "16 universal" needle (which I've been battling with today).

Curiously, the "very heavy" fabrics - of which leather does not appear to be one - including canvas, "duck" and upholstery fabrics, drop back to a "16 universal". Eh? I would have thought leather to have been somewhat heavier than canvas. Very odd. Anyway, I shall also take the instruction book with me to wave at the ladies tomorrow ("See, it says #18 here!"). I really think from my observation of the machine's and thread's behaviour that it's the size of the eye (in this case quite a bit too small) that is the root cause of the problems here.

Perhaps I could get hold of a #22 and modify its shank with ye file, if necessary ;).

Alex, it is not easy to tell from here but that thread you are using in the photo showing the snag looks like rope to me. It seems far too thick. My wife who is the expert here, said " that looks like rope".

The advice I received from Todd Bradshaw, a US sailmaker, who was hugely helpful when I was trying to find out what was needed.

Was to use V69 thread. That's a proper thread for sailmaking. That thread needs a No 16 needle. It seems to me the needle and the thread have to be matched.

If you cannot get V69 send me a pm and I will post you some. My local sailmaker was terrific in helping me with supplies and even lent me tools for closing the grommets.

My wife thinks sewing plastic film will be much harder than sewing cloth. That it will not slide properly. That snag looks to her that the plastic is not feeding through. Do you need a puller and a pusher?

When sewing the corner we had to hand turn the machine because it struggled with all the layers, but it did manage.

If we can help please ask. My wife used to be a seamstress, although our only sailmaking was just last year.

Brian

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the reply! I thought that I was getting something like V69, or close to it. Seems loik oi were wrarng (as usual) ;). Arrrr.

I know that Duckworks flog the stuff, but the freight costs from the US to Oz (at any rate) are insane. Getting stuff from the UK or Europe appears to be far cheaper than from the US (or it was a couple of years ago).

Thanks for the kind offer of thread - I'll mull it over while I'm in the process of getting more advice from the kind sewing ladies up the road. If I think of anything else to ask I'll give a very loud squawk!

And please tell your wife, "Yes it is like rope!" Which is why the poor 16 needle isn't coping at all. I haven't broken a needle yet, although my daughter thinks I've stuffed the auto-threader :(. And I probably did, stuffing that steel hawser into it...

As to "proper sail-making thread" - polytarp isn't exactly "proper sail-making cloth" (Dacron ;), so I'm not sure that "proper sail-making thread" is even an advantage. MIK may bring me up on that one, though (if he gets time to read this). That's something (thread propriety ;) that I'm also going to mull over, having just thought of it. I've probably been attempting to over-egg (or in my specific case, over-salt) things as usual.

Hopefully this thread (ha ha) might help some others wandering about the wilderness in the future - I hope so!

Cheers,
Alex.

Originally Posted by AlexN

Hi Paul, thanks for the data . I haven't been able to get needles any larger than 16, and tried ringing a few shops before giving up on that one. I was told that #16 is the largest that domestic machines (here in Oz?) are capable of taking. The table for the thread given by the supplier (Paskal Australia) says #22/#23 needle - so it's no wonder that 16 doesn't scratch. It hasn't been for want of trying that I haven't been able to get a larger eye-size so far.

As to the throttle control, I had it choked right down to the slowest, and dialled the bobbin tension down as low as I could get it as well. Our machine's manual isn't as as comprehensive and thorough-going as yours! The Gutermann upholstery thread that I was also trying out did the same thing, but on thinking back, maybe the bobbin tension should have been cranked back up a bit - I'd forgotten about it and left at "0".

Anyway, I'll see what the sewing shop ladies have to say when I present them with the thread and ask them for their advice tomorrow .

Cheers,
Alex.

Throttle control shouldn't make a difference in jamming. I was referring to the thread tension from the spool on the top of the machine. After it comes off the spool it's fed through a tensioner. Maybe you were already doing this but calling it something else, my apologies if you were.
I've included a diagram of what I'm talking about just in case.

Also for needles, size 110 and 18 are the same size so if you happen across a 110 needle or two...

Originally Posted by paulwjax

Throttle control shouldn't make a difference in jamming. I was referring to the thread tension from the spool on the top of the machine. After it comes off the spool it's fed through a tensioner. Maybe you were already doing this but calling it something else, my apologies if you were.
I've included a diagram of what I'm talking about just in case.

Also for needles, size 110 and 18 are the same size so if you happen across a 110 needle or two...

Hi Paul,

Many thanks for the diagram! It looks almost identical to the picture in my book. I had it threaded through the tensioner but I will investigate this further. I also discovered last night while reading through the manual again (useful thing, reading ;), I found that I'd probably wound the bobbin tension the wrong way - should have increased it rather than slackened it off.

In any case, I'm going to have a chat to the ladies this morning, and see what they think. Brian suggested V69 thread - I had a lead on that buy didn't follow it up as I'd already got the "Sunstop" ("rope" ;) lead and thought that that was probably going to be the one.

Interesting learning experience this has been - as usual, I appear to have done it the hard way in my impatience. Cautionary tale there, folks!

Cheers,
Alex.

OK - some progress! Yes indeed! But not with the big cone o' thread, I'm sorry to say. Yet another loss to cut adrift...

I went back to basics this morning, reset the machine to its defaults, and tried again after setting the machine up with the dark blue upholstery thread that I originally bought a couple of reels of, and tried a piece of "real" fabric instead of the polytarp, and a plain straight stitch. Bingo! Worked like a charm, so I switched to the plastic, and tried that with the same stitch. That also worked without a problem. At that point I went up to see the sewing shop ladies, and asked them what they thought about the "SunStop". I was told that they wouldn't put it through a domestic machine "in a pink fit", and if I really wanted to use it, I should find an industrial machine owner and pay them to do it. Or a sailmaker ;).

The biggest needles that they had were 100/16, so that was that. i bought another reel of upholstery thread, light grey this time to better match the sail, even though it is not going to be very UV-resistant. Isn't a s good a match as the SunStop, but it looks OK.

So, got home, re-threaded the machine, jammed it comprehensively because I forgot to put the foot down, and spent a while cursing and swearing while I took the machine apart to get the tangle out. While I was at it, I decided to get out a paint brush and give the whole area under the plate a good clean-up, and ended up removing quite a bit of dust and fluff.

Put it all back together (not all that much to it in fact, just one screw), and had another go with the "stepped" zig-zag stitch. Success! I used a piece of scrap tarp with a "hem" taped down per the sail, and sewed about 700 mm in one go, until I ran out of cloth. There wasn't a hitch. Admittedly I had the machine running fairly slowly, but it worked, and worked well this time.

I'll post some photos later.

Glad to hear things in the sewing department are going well for you now.

Originally Posted by paulwjax

Glad to hear things in the sewing department are going well for you now.

Hi Paul,

I've sewed several metres of practice hem so far, and hope to graduate to tight changes of direction and curves when I've learnt to keep the tarp tracking straight. Not easy: it's slippery stuff...

Cheers,
Alex.

Another small step forward; I've finally found the captive push stick for the Triton, after nearly giving up on it and using one of the home-made plywood thingies that I made for the Chinese TS. It was under a pile of junk on the floor, of course. Having achieved that minor triumph, I made some test cuts in scrap P. radiata to check the setting of the fence for chopping up the paulownia staves into smaller pieces (fence isn't quite right, it's about 0.2 mm out <snigger snigger snigger> ;). That circular saw sure makes a racket - I've been spoiled by the other TS' quiet induction motor and link belt. Ear muffs knock the edges off the noise though.

I didn't go any further as I'm still rather wobbly from the cold, plus I also forgot to take my "dried frog pills" (apologies once again to Mr Pratchett) this morning, and that has potentially disastrous consequences. I therefore packed up and went and did something that wouldn't do too much damage (had a nap ;).

The sail probably won't get attacked by the sewing machine this weekend, as I'm still not confident enough about my sewing - well, lets face it, I'm a raw, self-taught beginner at this. And I've selfishly decided that I want to be the one to do the sewing... Handling the bulky tarp - even with the majority of the sail on the left of the machine - is going to take some thought, and probably practice as well. The latter will be without needle or thread installed, so that I can learn what that bulk is going to do in transit. And probably also enlist the assistance of the Other Boss to help move the bundle along slowly so that I don't have to worry about moving the mass along all by myself and overloading the feed dogs on the machine.

Did a small bit of sanding on the hull, too: the now-rock-hard high-build is taking a while to get ready for the AquaCote high-build. There are still quite a few roller-ridges that I want out of the way before adding any more paint.

In my desperate meanderings about the workshop looking for the Triton's captive push stick (I will supply photos of this useful wee beastie in the not-too-distant future, I hope - it is one of the many little touches that make the Triton accurate and safe to use) this morning, I also stumbled across (not quite literally) a spring balance that I had acquired from Gowings Mitre10 - or their fishing tackle department, not sure which - in town, before Gowings went belly up. I got it for weighing aircraft roughly, and for checking motor thrust, but I thought that it would be good in this instance for weighing that mast :). I made a little sling from a nylon webbing strap by tying a bowline in one end and using the buckle at the other, threaded the mast through to the balance point, then hung it from the spring balance's hook. The pointer deflected to the 4 kg mark, so that's an extra kg heavier than the bathroom scales were reading - admittedly at the bottom end of their range. I'm going to use Mr Landreville's method of weighing oneself, then the object of interest, then subtracting one weight from t'other to get a (more) meaningful result: i.e., one that is within the designed working region of the scales.

The 4 kg result certainly backs up Martien's impression that the mast weighed more than 3 kg (the previous estimate) - a 33 % increase from the first result (and I didn't add any more resin either, honest ;). I can't judge weight very well myself - dimensions, yes, but not weight. Although I was myself rather suspicious that the mast was not 3 kg; similarly, I'm rather sceptical of the boat weighing 30 kg - I still think that that result was quite a bit on the light side. I have yet to unleash the Landreville Method(TM ;) on it yet, though. Be assured that I shall announce the result as soon as I have done so, however :).

Even with the mast having rather disappointingly put on quite a bit of weight over the last couple of weeks or so, I can live with that as long as it doesn't put any more on, and it's going to get put on a wee diet (hopefully not significantly or I'll be putting another resin coat on it yet again ;) when I give the mast its pre-varnishing rub-downs soon anyway. Or soonish. Got to deal with that hull, glue up the foils blank, and sew up that jolly sail.

Speaking of foils, keyhavenpotter's son is currently building an Iain Oughtred boat, and has done a magnificent and amazing job with his foils.

I think that's it for today. I've made a little progress while not having actually got anywhere, which can only be a Good Thing :).

Photos of the sewing after I've had a good night's sleep (I hope!) and can focus on it better. And have taken my "dried frog pills" (sorry, Terry ;) at the appropriate hour!

I've done absolutely nuffin' on the 'Duck today, other than pondering the possibility that the upholstery thread may not like salt water very much, even if hosed off with tap water afterwards. In fact, it may like Sydney tap water even less! At least it's not the infamous Adelaide tap water (I grew up with the stuff, maybe that's my problem ;).

Had a bit of fun poking about looking at some of the short 'Duck videos on YouTube, if for no other reason than to remind myself that I'm actually building something for the family to sail about in (although not necessarily all at once). Still a bit flat from yesterday: hopefully tomorrow I will be brighter.

Just enjoyed reading the last few posts.

The synthetic threads are not bothered by salt water. The thing that breaks them down is UV.

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Just enjoyed reading the last few posts.

The synthetic threads are not bothered by salt water. The thing that breaks them down is UV.

MIK

Howdy MIK,

I'm glad you enjoyed them - I was a wee bit wobbly when I wrote mine, but that was made up for by the other contributors :).

I went down to Bainbridge's at Brookvale this morning after speaking to Colin Janes on the phone. I had a good time chatting with him about sail-cloth, thread and stitching. Having around 30 years' experience sail-making, I guess he'd know ;). He had some lighter grade thread, and suggested that a darker contrasting colour to the pale grey polytarp would be better, as you can see better when the stitching starts to go. The thread is the same A&E "Dabond" bonded polyester ("Dabond" is actually made by Coats).

Colin suggested putting some bits of Dacron about the same sizes as the smallest patches as reinforcements in the corners, especially if using toothed eyelets (I am). So I got a small piece to cut some out of - I will have quite a bit left over! Another suggestion was to use the smallest needle that I can get away with (e.g., 12), working up in size as the patches get thicker;I got some packets of 12s and 14s this evening.

I asked him about reefing tie points, and he suggested that I try Whitworths' down the road for a small eyelet kit. I tried them, but the smallest they had was 9 mm, but they suggested that I try Tony Hannan, a sail-maker back up towards Bainbridge's. The upshot of that was that I can take the sewn-up sail to him and he'll bang some small eyelets in on the tie-position patches that I'll sew in on the two reefing lines, for a modest sum o' money.

I was quite cheered up by the whole episode - the only problem being that I forgot to put the new reel of thread in my shopping bag while still at Bainbridge's - so I will have to go back tomorrow. This may actually work out better for two reasons: 1. I may change the colour to an even darker one than the "Cadet Grey" that I bought; and 2. I may be able to slip back a size to V-69 from the V-92 that I got. Light grey wasn't available in V-69, so I got the V-92 (we tried it in a 16 needle that I'd taken along and it was fine): but if I'm going for a darker colour (e.g., black or dark blue), then the V-69 option opens right back up again, and I'd feel happier with the lighter-weight thread.

I started on the task of chopping up the paulownia for the 7.5 mm foil pinstripes this afternoon, but hit a snag. The cuts kept changing widths, and I found that the table was moving with respect to the saw blade. After stripping off the table and fixing up the spring clips on the locks (one side of each spring had come out of its track), I tracked the problem down - at least in part - to the pop-rivet(s) holding the rear locking/fence-guide track onto the table end having come loose. The front channel isn't quite as bad but is still wobbling a fraction. The loose channels mean that the fence is moving about relative to the blade as well, which is worse than the table moving (although the riving-knife - which is fixed to the table - skating about isn't too good either, as at one point it was preventing the timber from passing across the table: which is why I started looking at the table for sources of trouble to begin with). This will mean getting out the pop-riveting kit tomorrow, and drilling out and replacing the old rivets. I'll then know if the problem's is fixed or whether I have to fall back on the good ol' duct tape to shim a few edges along the channels and/or the table/table-lock tongues. I think at this stage that replacing the rivets will fix the problem, but I can't be sure until I've done it. Fortunately, it won't take much to pull things to bits and do the job, but I wasn't expecting to have to do that...which I will do when I get back from my trip back to Brookvale first thing tomorrow morning to pick/swap the thread cone.

I will put up Saturday's sewing photos shortly, but not tonight. I'm either going to pay for a year's subscription to Flickr "Pro" in the next day or so, or leave it until next week to get a two-year's sub. Not sure which way to slice it: if I decide to go for two years, there may be a black-out (or white-out, to be more precise) of pics for a few hours, although it may be as much as a day or so. But the Flickr rules 'n' regs assure one that the photos "will reappear" as soon as the "owner" of the account has coughed up. We'll see - if I decide to go that way or not. I'll give you all fair warning of what I decide, though :).

Cheers,
Alex.

Went back to Brookvale this morning and picked up the new (V92) thread, swapping it for a very dark (almost black) blue. That should provide sufficient contrast -;). See first few photos below for the similarly-coloured initially-successful upho;stery thread. The new thread slips through the eye of a 16 (sewing machine) needle like anything, is OK in a 14, and is possibly even passable in a 12 - but we'll see ;).

Some sewing photos from Saturday:

1. First successful stitches: initial run of straight stitch on the right, "broken" zig-zag on left done next. Reel and bobbin of upholstery thread used at top right of photo





2. Close up of initial stitches underneath of fabric in this and previous photo. Holes on left of fabric are from previous failed attempts with the SunStop V138 removed before this attempt. #16 needle used in all photos in this sequence





3. Initial stitches seen from the top side





4. Underside of complete run about 700-800 mm total. Hem here is folded and taped. The tension on the bobbin might have been a bit wrong in this run





5. Close-up of upper side of long attempt. I wasn't very good at sewing in a straight line...wandering all over the place





6. Upper (seam) side of "long" attempt





7. Underside of "long" seam: I did another run on about 1500 mm of folded and taped hem





8. More folded-and-taped hemming: 1500 mm attempt





9. Close-up of some of underside of 1500 mm hem. The "breaks" in the zigs and zags are quite visible in this photo


Follow this link to see these and many other related photos on my Flickr account...



Nothing else accomplished today - been pretty flat and down in the dumps (unable to find tools, stuff broken and will have to be replaced on Triton, etc.). Although just after dinner, found my missing headlight (at the bottom of a box of stuff carted down to the workshop on Saturday) and ran an M6-1.0 die down a cross-threaded coach bolt from the Triton, so the fence clamps are fixed again now. But I'm going to rejig the saw in its chassis again, as it it isn't aligned properly (not surprising given previously-undetected movement in the fence). I had tried drilling out the rivets earlier in the day without success, as they kept spinning with the bit: I found that attempts to to hold them with mole-grips, etc., resulted in clenching them up a bit, so the wobbly channel is a lot stiffer than it was, and will do as a temporary expedient until I can get the rivets out (but I will no doubt wait until the fence starts wobbling again ;).