Thread: PDR Lugsail Rigging Woes

Originally Posted by dkirtley

Maybe I am being dense. It has been known to happen before.

I went out and hoisted my sail last weekend. In the driveway, unfortunately. Good news is that it actually sets real pretty. Bad news, it is sitting cattiwhampus. (Does that translate to OZian? )

I have read the rigging guide. I have looked at other PDR pics, I look at GIS pics.

I am running my main sheet from a becket on the end of the boom, down through traveller on horse, back up through the becketed block to a block about the middle of the boom (just forward of DB case) to a swivel block on the DB case.(Not as tortuous of a path as it sounds when you write it all down. Just brings the sheet amidships.

If I tie the halyard to the yard at about 30% aft on the yard, the boom is way too low (almost on the transom) and it won't peak.

If I tie it at about 45% back, peak looks better but everything else looks really off. Boom would be in your lap.

Maybe I am raked more than specified. How do I compensate? (NO, not for that, for the mast rake!)

Specific questions:

How far back on the boom does everyone rig their downhaul?

The front corner of the sail should be about 300mm or a bit less in front of the mast.

How far aft on the yard does everyone else rig their halyard?

It goes about 50 percent back but will vary a little from boat to boat. With the downhaul in about the right position you adjust the halyard till the sail looks like it is in about the same position as the plan.

You are using the same halyard system as on the Goat page?

Should I throw myself on my sword and do a sail re-cut?

Definitely not at this stage. Try the simple things first. If the above doesn't work can you take a digital photo and post it here or just email to me?

The main thing is the boom should end up higher at the back end than the front end.

A check that the measurements are right for the mast and the sail.

I have found that a simple 2 to one mainsheet works fine. Block with beckett on the traveller, single block on end of boom. It won't affect your problem one way or another but it is an alternative you can try and see if you like.

Hope this helps - get back if it doesn't.

MIK

What about the downhaul?

At present, I was just lashing the halyard to the yard to see where it worked out for balance. From the pics I have seen, they seemed to look like they were further forward on the yard which didn't seem right when I was testing it out. Also moving the downhaul forward should help as well. Hopefully I will get the weekend to play with your instructions. Going back to 50% on the hoist and bringing the downhaul forward should rotate the boom up out of the way and get it out of the cockpit. If there is any fault, it might be that my mast ended up a bit short. Hmm. Don't know how that could have happened.....

Regarding GIS style rigging, I am pretty much following exactly what I saw in your pics and what you discuss in your rigging guide. I went a little overboard and mounted a cheek block to the masthead for the halyard instead of a deadeye. I also drilled a dumb sheave through the top as a "just in case" alternative. Halyard is 3.8mm Dyneema from New England Ropes. I don't really understand the block on the yard though, but I will take your word for it.

I am using a little trapeze/vang cleat I got from Duckworks for the downhaul going through a swivel block on the deck next to the mast run with the same Dyneema as the halyard. I cheated and put a 1/8" thick 2" x 5" aluminum backing plate under the swivel block below the deck to distribute the pull along with having a 1/4" deck. It is only 2:1 but I have enough "where with all" to give it a tug. Sometimes extra mass is an advantage.

Duckworks Boatbuilders Supply

The block lashings I have been toying with a constrictor hitch rather than a cow hitch but not really worried about those.

Mainsheet is the same as GIS except I went with a becket block at the aft end and moved it back to the end of the boom and tied off on the becket rather than the boom just to move it out of the way. A small swivel block is screwed to the front of the DB case.

The only thing I varied on the sail was making it loose footed. I expect it to be reefed 95% of the time and only shaking out the reef on odd low wind occasions that are rare here. Just had a full month of 25-30 mph winds. I went with interrupted lacings to the yard (individual ties rather than continuous.) I might change that but low worry level on that score. A bit oversized on the grommets for the sail just so I wouldn't have to worry about threading too much through them.

I will let you know how it works out when I get to round two of fitting stuff. Maybe even get on the water if I am lucky.

Worst case scenario is to whip together another sail. I should still have enough left on the roll of polytarp to make another. I bought a big roll expecting a learning curve on the sailmaking end of things. This one is the second one. A lot better than the first and the next one will be much better. Practice makes perfect.

Well, I went out today and rigged things up completely with the additional instructions. Well, not perfect but progress none the less.

I think I might have trimmed here and there on the mast shortened it a bit and lost a couple inches by using the cheek block. I could go and measure it but there is not anything I can do about it at this point so there is not much use. Also, the measurements of my sail may be a bit off. Ce'st la vie.

All that said, I think that the plan of action right now is to wait and see. I am going to test it with one permanent reef and decide what to do later. I want to be more used to the boat before I would whip out the full 80 sq. ft. anyway. I re-laced the sail to the yard with a marline hitch and re-tied the tack and clew, all with the 1.8mm dyneema. The thin line works a lot better and neater. I made 3 loops through the grommet and the hole in the boom and it give me a 3:1 purchase to pull the head and foot nice and tight. Looks pretty.

Right now, I have two real issues:

As it is, the laced on blocks tend to slip around. I am thinking about putting a small screw in the boom for each one just as a pin to keep them in place and stop them from sliding.

Speaking of booms, that is my other issue. I might want a stiffer one. The one I made seems more bendy than what it should be once I start cranking on the downhaul. I am going to go with two ideas and see which wins out. Keep the same boom but go to a laced foot on the sail or make a stiffer boom or some combination of the two.

I might make another sail that is the full size and chop this one off at the first reef point. Quite honestly, when I hoisted the full size it was pretty intimidating.

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

What about the downhaul?

Howdy Brian,

The distance between the tack and the mast gives the downhaul position in effect.

MIK

Originally Posted by dkirtley

Well, I went out today and rigged things up completely with the additional instructions. Well, not perfect but progress none the less.

I think I might have trimmed here and there on the mast shortened it a bit and lost a couple inches by using the cheek block. I could go and measure it but there is not anything I can do about it at this point so there is not much use. Also, the measurements of my sail may be a bit off. Ce'st la vie.

If it is an issue you can always change it later. Every sailor has a box of bits that didn't quite work in the way we expected!!!!

I do think you will need more downhaul purchase. The 2:1 with a biggish force applied will be OK between about 5 and 12 knots of breeze. A lighter force less in the very light stuff, but you might miss out on some of the needed grunt when the wind gets really strong.

From your previous post the only really important thing is that the mast is trapped between the yard and the halyard. They go on opposite sides of the mast. If you have that it will go fine.

All that said, I think that the plan of action right now is to wait and see. I am going to test it with one permanent reef and decide what to do later. I want to be more used to the boat before I would whip out the full 80 sq. ft. anyway. I re-laced the sail to the yard with a marline hitch and re-tied the tack and clew, all with the 1.8mm dyneema. The thin line works a lot better and neater. I made 3 loops through the grommet and the hole in the boom and it give me a 3:1 purchase to pull the head and foot nice and tight. Looks pretty.

Sounds great.

Right now, I have two real issues:

As it is, the laced on blocks tend to slip around. I am thinking about putting a small screw in the boom for each one just as a pin to keep them in place and stop them from sliding.

The halyard one doesn't move around much at all on every boat I have sailed. Once the tension is in - even slightly it doesn't tend to move around much. However there have been one or two that have had problems.

The normal answer is a small thumb cleat - little more than a small wedge of wood where the flat edge rests against the attachment loop preventing it from moving. If you want to use a screw put it on the compression side of the yard or boom - the one that is concave when the load is on.

A screw fitted into wood doesn't affect the compression strength at all (from testing done at Farnborough aircraft research during WW2) but does have a significant effect on tensile strength - wood is actually less affected than many other materials as trees know how to deal with holes, but it does reduce the tensile strength.

Speaking of booms, that is my other issue. I might want a stiffer one. The one I made seems more bendy than what it should be once I start cranking on the downhaul. I am going to go with two ideas and see which wins out. Keep the same boom but go to a laced foot on the sail or make a stiffer boom or some combination of the two.

Yes - the wood for the boom can vary in stiffness a great deal. The laced loose foot does restrict the boom bend better than a loose foot

I might make another sail that is the full size and chop this one off at the first reef point. Quite honestly, when I hoisted the full size it was pretty intimidating.

When you find out how well it sails in light and moderate winds you will be happy. Of course reef when it looks like getting stronger.

The assumption with older working boats was to put a lot of sail on, and the sail reduced when needed. It is a cheaper alternative than the racer's one of having a small sail to make the boat look slow to a handicap measurement rule and adding extra sails to give it good performance.

Once you get used to it in moderate conditions then the only people intimidated will be those in boats nearby!

Best wishes
Michael

Nah. Halyard is solid and works perfectly as advertised. It can't go anywhere because of the lacing of the sail. Yes, I went on the other side of the mast as indicated. The ones that were giving me the problem with slippage were the ones for the downhaul and the mainsheet.

I went ahead with a small screw on the top of the boom (inside the curve). Just the head up to rest the loop against.

Spent the rest of the afternoon installing boat jewlery. I mounted a Herreshoff cleat on the lower part of the forward coaming (Yes, I have some beefy coamings) and some chocks on both sides of the bow. The Herreshoff cleat is my secret weapon. I put it down low on the inside coaming between the mast and the side right under the boom. Coincidentally, the perfect place to rig a second downhaul or get some serious purchase if I really need to put some juice on the other one. It is also where I will be able to deploy a small anchor (Yet to be purchased).

Hopefully I will take it for its maiden voyage tomorrow. I think I want to go down to a park down on the river and dodge around the smugglers .