Thread: PDRacer - Oz Mk2 Version plans released. Comments, Questions etc.

Originally Posted by jonnyess

Hi there.
I have just found your web site and forum and really like the look of your PDRs. I have trawled through the forum but can't find the answer to a couple of questions.
1. how many hours would a build take (roughly)
2. what is the final weight of the mark 2 including epoxy

The boat looks great. i was considering building a Bolger Tortoise - but this looks far superior - I just hope it isn't more complicated for a novice like me.
Best wishes from Blighty

Jon

Howdy John,

If it is sailing you want - then the OZ PDR is far superior to the tortoise.

And the PDR can be set up OK to row or take a little outboard too.

Our two Mk1 boats came in at around 62 to 65lbs (30kg) for the hulls including the sailing fittings, paint and epoxy.

The sailing rig for the two boats came in at a bit under 20lbs - mast boom sail and ropes.

It would be possible to reduce the weight of the hull further - we used a hardwood exterior grade plywood which was quite heavy.

While estimating weight is relatively easy to do the amount of labour is hugely variable.

In my varied boat career I have run building classes and sold material to people building boats and never cease to be amazed by how much and how little time can be spent on building identical boats by different people.

For example most people building a cedar strip canoe in 6 months or a year. But the fastest I've seen one done was in 12 days. Others I know have gone on for 3 or 5 years before finishing.

Suffice it do say that Rob (dopeydriver on this forum) who hadn't built a boat before built most of a hull and just about completed a mast and boom in 11 days at the Duckflat Spring school - working by himself.

He'd be the first to admit that he had some trouble coming to grips with the basic tools involved tools and general boatbuilding methods but managed to get it done in 11 days. And that included a couple of mistakes that had to be undone and redone.

How long it will take you ... no idea! But hope this helps.

Michael

Dear Michael. Many thanks for the prompt and informative reply. I totally understand the difficulty in forescasting the time it might take a stranger to do ..well, anything.
The plans on the website are for the mark 2 are they not? Are these heavier or lighter than the Mk1 - and would your guestimated weight include the flotation chambers.?
I apologise for pushing this point - but I want to use this boat as a tender to a larger one, and need to be able to tow it behind with little fuss, and more importantly - I need to car top it.
I look forward to your reply. Many thanks once again.
jon

Gidday Jon,

The MK1 weighs the same as teh MK2, only minor differences in the rocker and the assembly methodology, oh and a 25mm lower free board from memory.

Car topping should be no problem, and neither should towing, although you may need to experiment with a location (and provide reinforcement) for a towing eye, to get it to sit tidily. No more than you'd need with any other tender.

I'm hoping to do a few tests in coming weeks to try to document some of that stuff, because as a tender the PDR is much more stable than a "traditionally" shaped dinghy.

Cheers,

P

Spot on P.

MIK

The best place to anchor the tow rope is at the base of the bow transom. that way the PDR will sit up on its stern so its bow won't dig in.

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

The best place to anchor the tow rope is at the base of the bow transom. that way the PDR will sit up on its stern so its bow won't dig in.

On a short rode, keeping her with that bow-up attitude.

An eye bolt through the athwartship chine-log thingy at the junction between the bow transom and the bottom would be simple, but I wonder if it would be TOO low?

P

One of the projects that I had to do while I was up at Mooloolaba was to document the rigging of the PDRs.

The info here will eventually make its way onto the www.pdracer.info site but it will be available on flickr until that happens.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik...7594524425079/

It actually covers some of the simple and cheap ways we use to put together a sailing rig that works well so is broadly applicable to any boat with a sprit rig.






Best wishes
Michael Storer

Jon , the boat isn't difficult to make , particularly if you already have some woodworking skills , and familiararity with tools.
I'm very pleased with mine , and I'd done hardly any woodworking for the last 40 years or so.
The BIG PLUS though , is the support from MIK . The PDR comes with a great instruction book , if you check MIKs site you can see it on my boat a few times , but when you have a problem , just e-mail MIK , and he will help you sort it out.
And because of the current work , its still evolving , its really getting tuned up.
I wish I could be part of it !.
I wanted to build the boat so that i am then familiar with the process , and the boat , and I also wanted it to be the vehicle to an introduction to sailing , and I reckon it will do that too !.
Things have unfortunately been slowed down for me , but nothing to do with the boat !.
I'd say Jon , GO FOR IT !.
Rob J.

AND!! given the rave reviews and posts about the PDRacer I dont want to EVER EVER EVER hear another negative word about Bolgers designs!! I mean THIS IS A BOX people!!

Albeit a good box its still a box

Just kidding Mik

Not as ugly as ruddy Bolger's boxes though. Sheesh, that man borrows the ugly stick from the Germans

Richard
is that what you wanted Shane?

Originally Posted by Daddles

Not as ugly as ruddy Bolger's boxes though. Sheesh, that man borrows the ugly stick from the Germans

Richard
is that what you wanted Shane?

Thats the one daddlydaddles no worries

Howdy All,

Well, Midge has finally started getting his pics sorted from the big trip - sorting through his two frizzled computers.



There will be much more to come but the racing at the Goolwa Wooden Boat Show was blown out along with much of the on the water activities. But I had a crack at the peak speed record for PDRs.

It was also interesting getting the boat out in a solid breeze and a good chop.

Here is the story and photos of the record attempt.
http://pdracer.blogspot.com/

It was a good test of the Mk2 masts I built in February - they stood up to the breeze much better than the too bendy Mk1 masts. (If you have a plan for the masts the plan will be for the Mk2 - the only plans for the first masts were the ones we built for the first two boats)

Note too how the boat is cranking along in a good breeze under full sail and the bendy mast is taking care of the gusts for me so I don't have to work too hard. See how the rudder is nice and central - this means the boat is nicely balanced and wants to go straight.

Handsome is as handsome does.

More pics here including the PDR carrying three adults for some crabbing
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bitingm...7594095775789/

MIK

Hey all,

Does anyone know if a Laser rig has ever been used on a puddle duck?

Just seems like a good idea to me as;
- They can be picked up second hand at a cheap price
- You can use the Full, Radial or 4.7 depending on how serious you are and how much you weigh
- They are simple and break down to managable lengths

Think I might start designing a pd!!

Ben

Howdy Mezaire,

We have thought through this carefully.

Second hand sails and rigs aren't allowed for racing within the OZ PDR class.

The reason is that you can pick up second hand sails quite cheap and a laser rig would probably outclass the existing rig (assuming it was set up for the centre of effort of the sail matched the existing).

So that would mean everyone would have to have laser rigs and laser sails.

Now a 10 year old laser rig with a five year old sail might cost a couple hundred dollars.

But it will be outclassed by a 5 year old laser rig with a three year old sail that might cost around $300.

This would be outclassed by a 3 year old laser rig with a season old sail that would cost $1200.

This in turn would be outclassed by a 1 year old laser rig with a sail that has done a couple of regattas that would cost around $3000.

So that is why second hand sails can be used for racing in OZ PDRacer class events but attract a really huge weight penalty that has to be added to the hull. If there is no penalty it just starts the normal arms race that has made every existing class stupidly expensive.

If the arms race is allowed within the OZ PDRacer class the PDR will become stupidly expensive too.
_________________________________

Within the framework of the World rules - just the plain PDRacer rules you can do just about anything you like. Carbon Masts Mylar Sails wings. Everything but hydrofoils - which are specifically banned.

The World rules give anyone the right to frame up their own rules for a PDR subclass.

But because we want to keep the OZ PDR simple and cheap - a basic racing class with good performance - we have set up some additional rules to keep it that way.

You can read them here
http://www.pdracer.info/history/rules.html

The interesting thing is despite our OZ PDR rules being much more restrictive our boats are have by far the best performance compared to any of the other boats so far.

I know I can make them faster - like using the wooden Moth Class technology you could build a PDR hull that comes in around 20lbs - I can draw up much a much bigger rig and fit the boat with wings.

But that doesn't mean that racing will be any better than under the existing OZ PDR rules.

Hope this explains. You can decide what to do.

You can build a boat to the World rules - fewer restrictions
You can create a subclass that MUST use a Laser Rig
YOu can create a subclass where unlimited speed is the object.
You can create a new design to the OZ PDR rules and have a crack at beating us (that would be cool)
You can use all or part of an OZ PDR design as the basis for some improvements that you think you can make (which would also be cool)

Or if you can think of something else - then go for that.

Best wishes
Michael