Thread: PDRs in the USA - Long voyages, meet-ups

I remember a discussion I had with Howard Chapelle, damn about 40 years ago on this very subject.

I was young and was actively kicking butt on the race course. He saw the rising costs of sailing over the last 50 years and thought the world was about to end for sailing, with no one able to afford a boat. I thought he was over reacting to the newest wave of inovation.

In many respects he was right. In his youth, everyone had a little boat, most locally built and they were considered "disposable" for the most part, used until their bottoms fell off and a new one was commissioned.

In my youth, the building craze after WW II, through the 60's and early 1970's was in full swing. The contraptions that people thought would float was astounding, most clad with polyester resin and cloth, which fell off in sheets in years to come. I even campaigned a self designed and built 18' racer and was promptly banned from the course after several races. Tip to self, don't off the blue bloods if you want to play in their games . . .

Sailing has always been a sport of nobility, though many classes of small craft have been available for the masses (likely to keep the peasants appeased). In spite of the smaller boats, costs have risen dramatically and I'm in full agreement with the PDR concept, but on the other hand, I don't want to go back to deadeyes, cotton sails and hemp rigging either.

I'm just starting a new project to build two identical 17' boats. They're ketches and the rigging costs are astounding, but the price to pay if they are to fair well against others of their type.

In the end, it's a combination of issues that have caused these costs to rise so much in the last 30 years. When Chappy had a new boat built, labor was cheap and materials amounted to a high percentage of the boat's total cost. When I was young, labor was rising, but it still wasn't the predominate cost of a build. Now with the advent of high tech materials and devices, material prices are rising again, but labor costs still easily out weigh the vast majority of a build's total bill.

Manufactures have tried to remove as much labor as they can from the build, using molds, resin injection, machine assembly of parts, but the skilled labor to build a boat is now very high. To recover the costs of costly materials and methods, manufactures have little choice. I'm in fact facing this, as I pass the building agreement back to the client this week. It's the most I've ever charged for a 17' open day boat, but I too have to cover costs.

Back to the PDR, every racer I know will try just about anything to get an "edge". I knew a guy once that raced stock cars. The rules said the cars had to roll over a set of scales at the beginning of each race. He filled his roll cage with sand, so he could make the required weight. During the race, he released sand at a specific rate, so that by race's end he was substantially lighter then when he started. He crashed one night and the trick was reveled and now all cars are weighed after the race too, but he won quite a few races, until they caught on and fixed the rule. It's the nature of all racers to seek an advantage. On the course I'm constantly looking at the guys around me to see who I can take advantage of. If you make a couple of lazy tacks, you can bet I'm going to climb all over your transom and get you into a duel on the next up wind leg.

In other words, I have no issue with poly tarp sails, but if I showed up in your backyard, you can rest assured, my poly tarp material would be lighter, possibly chemically treated to be less stretchy and after waxing the crap out of the bottom of the boat, I'd butter my bread with it, because it's not that bad once you get use to it.

Cheers PAR,

Yes ... the polytarp wars have started! We kicked off with a $20 tarp that we got two sails out of. But now we have graduated to weight of polytarp that is more similar to sail cloth weight for the boat size - which doubles the price - so one sail is about $30 in cloth.

However ... I can't see them making a specialist racing polytarp just yet.

)

The economics of Professional boatbuilding are very different as you point out!

Michael

Originally Posted by Boatmik

"FLAT out at 250mph, the Bugatti Veyron gets through almost two gallons of fuel a minute, but after 12 minutes and 48 miles will shut down and coast to a halt, the petrol tank bone dry. "

Perhaps one should note, that presently tyre technology will only allow 14 minutes of safety at 407 (the cars maximum speed) kph, which is how the tank capacity was derived!

Cheers,

P

By the way, PAR was lucky enough to meet Howard Chapelle.

(1901-1975) was curator of maritime history at the Smithsonian Institution, Washington, D.C.. In addition, he authored many books and articles books on maritime history and marine architecture.

He is one of the people who started to document American traditional boats and laid the foundation for a lot of the wooden boat renaissance that we all take advantage of.

American Small Sailing Craft (1951) is considered the classic among small-boat builders and historians. In it he documented many fast-vanishing working boats.

His other books include:

Yacht Designing and Planning (1936) W.W. Norton & Company, ISBN 0-393-03756-8

Boatbuilding: A Complete Handbook of Wooden Boat Construction (1941) W.W. Norton & Company Inc.

The History of American Sailing Ships

The History of the American Sailing Navy

The Search for Speed Under Sail: 1700-1855 (1967) W.W. Norton & Company, Inc.

The Baltimore Clipper

The American Fishing Schooners 1825-1935 ([1973]) W.W. Norton & Company Inc., ISBN 0-393-03123-3

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Perhaps one should note, that presently tyre technology will only allow 14 minutes of safety at 407 (the cars maximum speed) kph, which is how the tank capacity was derived!

Cheers,

P

100 litres is the capacity. Just thought you would like to know. 4mpg (of the imperial kind)

The Texas 200 - News from the Participants in the PDRacer

The end of the saga - I'm a couple of days behind on this.

From Sandra at Duckworks

Evening update: Phone service very spotty, I got maybe every 5th or 6th word from Chuck. The old State Park is out there.

Will relate what I have heard about the place--may or may not be accurate. It used to be a military base. If you hike around there, you can see all the old airstrips--now sprouting grass and providing nest sites for terns. The story we heard was that it became a spot where higher ranking officers could take their girlfriends and party. When it was decommissioned or whatever, it was donated to the State of Texas and became Matagorda State Park--accessible only by water. For some years, the state had a people ferry and would take folks out for the day or to camp overnight. Rangers in the park would ferry you over to the beach (2 or 3 miles) in the morning and come pick you up in the evening. There is an old lighthouse that has been restored (not sure if it was finished or not), and some bird and wildlife watching stands here and there. Lots of BIRDS--this is a major migratory fly through area. The last time we were there, we saw coyotes, jackrabbits, deer, and lots of other small creatures and of course, birds. We saw an alligator swimming just offshore. No rangers anymore, so presumably one is on ones own transportation-wise.

For a while, it looked as though the state would upgrade the old buildings, but that seemed to just fade away. The people ferry had a fire and you have to have your own boat to get out there. They built some outdoor showers, but I hear the water is no longer on. Hopefully, Chuck will check that out. It is a nice place, but HOT HOT HOT during the day in the summer and there are mosquitos at night, although Chuck tells me they have yet to see mosquitos this trip. Wonderful!

Just looked up the website for the park: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild...ma/list/?id=48

This tells more about its official designation now.

Just talked with Chuck. Sailing for the state park turned out to be straight into the wind for the folks who came up the ICW, and some chose not to go there--they went to Port O'Connor or camped on the side of the channel (he said the PDR's did that). Chuck and Mike and Kellan took the shallow way through the little islands and channels and they are at the park along with 12 or so others. Still waiting for Kellan to show up, and they were expecting him to call for a tow anytime as FUGU does not sail into the wind well at all.

I leave first thing tomorrow for the coast, so this will be the last update from my end. This computer does not travel; it is desk-bound.

The Smallest Boats Speak - PDRacers Rule!

From Jeremy Nodsworth via phone

I just got a call from Andrew Linn that they've made it to Magnolia Beach.

First among their priorities was finding a place to shower.

I'm headed down to Magnolia Beach early in the morning and hope to see
many of you there.

jeremy

Looks like we will have some more info to come ... Andrew Linn makes foolish promises

Guys,

I finally got an internet connection and I wanted you all to know
Jason, John and I are OK and happy to have completed this event. I knew
it was going to be hard - but holy crap! We got the pounded out of
us.

I will be sending you all a day-by-day write-up, as well as a detailed
rundown on what I think will make this event more comfortble
(expedition class PDR suggestions.)

I have to say, we impressed 'em all. John Wright is a super human and
has my undying admiration and loyalty. Jason is a goddam hero andI feel
I have gained two new brothers. Forged in fire, guys, forged in fire.

Most boats had more comfort than the humble PDRacers.

Texas 200 debrief from the participants in the PDRacers

No Picnic for 8ft boats
Winds 20 to 25 knots most days


The PDR3 - John Wright, Andrew Linn, Jason Nabors immediately after sailing into the finish.

First we have John Wright - who has a long sailing record in different boats

All,
A short impression of the (epic?) voyage.

It was a wild ride at times.
A little too much wind by 8 AM (20 knot+?).
A little mud at the first camp but shade under some trees.
A little brisk second day and a camp site at the Padre Island Yacht Club
with shower! and dinner at Snoopy's
A great sail across Corpus Christi Bay. The tallest waves but regular
and exhilarating. The three PD's took the Corpus Christi Bayou rout to
Aransas Bay and the run to a great shell beach anchorage at Long Reef at
Big Island.
Then a rough ride across San Antonio Bay that would toss our little boats
up and then fall out from under us. Jason was effusive about the ride
and compared it with bungie jumping.
Then the pleasant down hill broad reach to Magnolia Beach.

Now to dry out my stuff... More will follow from the PDR3.
johninbastrop

Supporters - the PDR3 have been released! (Pics from Chuck at Duckworks)

From Jason Nabors - who is probably the most "out there" experimenter with the PDRs.

Well I got home about an hour ago and unloaded the gear.
Here is a summary of the events....

Day 1.
left campsite @ 6:00 or 7:00 am (can't quite remember)
High wind 20+,wind overpowered rudder and had to do most of the trip
under jib.I was traveling 5.0 to 5.8 with just a jib through the land
cut.Made camp just in time to see a porpoise going airborne next to
the campsite.Had spam singles for dinner.

day 2.
Left 6:00 am
Sailed ICW on a broad reach and saw many porpoises.
The swam beside and under my PDR.I literaly could have reached out
and touched them.I was joined by kellan who told me that he had
thought he had a blow out on the inflatable kayak but it was a
porpoise blowing out air right next to him.
Tried to make the yacht club entrance but it was dead to wind and
could not get in.Sailed down to Snoopys and had a couple of beers and
meet up with my wife and daughter.
They then returned me to the yacht club where I showered and plotted
the next days course.
Had Whataburger for dinner.

Day 3.
Woke up at 6:00 to @ 25+ winds.
Andrew and I were considering dropping out.We discussed it and said
we didn't come all this way to quit.I jumped in the Sea Flea with
andy and we sailed down to Snoopys to get my PDR.We then sailed down
the ICW to shamrock cove then to DEAD MANS REEF.
I got separated from the both of them and ened up stuck in the mud
for an hour or so.Made it to the campsite just in time to see the
sunset.
Had V8 for dinner.

Day 4.
Woke up at 6:00 am and sailed the ICW with John and Andrew.
We hit the entrance to San Antonio Bay just in time for the winds to
kick up to 20+.John tacked ahead as andrew and myself battled to get
to windward.We were unable to round the point to Army Hole and
continued to sail the ICW with john joining us.(Thank you for coming
back with us John).
We then entered San Antonio Bay on a beam reach with 25+ winds and
probably 3 to 4 foot swells.Made it to the other side and made camp
10 miles from Port Oconnor.
Had spam singles for dinner.

Day 5.
Woke up at 6:00 and sailed for the Port Oconnor jetty.
Andrew,John,and myself sailing in formation through the jetty, came
about and ran downwind for Magnolia Beach.
Hit the beach with a tearfull ending and let down the sails.
Had fried seafood platter and beer for dinner.
That about sums it up.
Oh ya,if anyone tries to beat this record I will hunt them down.
Sunburn and Spray

Still waiting on Mr Linn for his comments - he normally does some sort of web presentation so might take a little longer.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

I'm just amazed at how well the Ducks did in the Texas 200. They stayed out when bigger and more seaworthy (???) boats would have quit. Says a hell of a lot for the PDRs and more for the men who sailed them.
Talk about "grit"!

Someday someone, not me, will max out a PDR. Ultralight with wings, horizontal planes and all the other rule-breaking go-fast gadgets, just because they can.

Human nature being what it is, it's impossible for it not not happen.

CN

Howdy Cybernaught,

Didn't the PDRs do well!!!! Averaging 40 miles a day is tricky in an 8ft boat.

As far as rules go ...

In other classes people work as closely to the limits of the rules as is possible - if they exceed the intent of the rules they do it by interpretation - and then may or may not be slapped down by the Measurement Committee.

There is one main set of rules for PDRacers - overriding international rules - only 5 rules.

The only thing that is banned out of your list are horizontal foils. The idea is that if someone builds an all carbon fibre PDR with a complex modern rig wings and a trapeze ... then they can go on the hunt for someone with a similar boat who wants to sail against them - I'd take them on in an OZ in light wind - no worries!!! I think they would get tangled up in all the complexity. I think I would have a shot in the strong stuff too.

In other words, in PDRdom there is no guarantee that if you build an advanced PDR that anyone will have to race against you - they can just form a subgroup with their own sets of rules.

So ... there is an option to make subgroups of rules - so long as they don't conflict with the international rules.

And that is how we created the OZ rules to choose the combination lightest and cheapest and simplest methods we could think of and protect boats using them - specifying plywood minimum thicknesses and polytarp sails with no seam shaping - for example.

Almost all the existing PDRs fit the OZ subgroup rules except for boats using second hand sails and those without enough buoyancy tankage (some of the early boats had none before they realised how tanks solve all the structural issues - the OZPDRs were largely responsible for popularising that and other approaches by bringing side tanks and much lighter ply than most into the equation).

That's why I put tanks in all my designs by the way. Designers that don't "get it" - who design a structure to be strong enough without tanks and then add tanks are wasteful of materials and labour - and their boats are much heavier.

We don't like second hand sails under the OZ subrules because - the less secondhand they are - the faster the boat will be. We can see where that process will end up. But for the general fleet it is a good way of getting boats on the water.

Best wishes
Michael.

Texas 200 - aftermath!

Just ran into Jason Nabors - one of the PDR Three - on the net.

He was trying to chase up photos.

Thats fine.I wanted to see if it looked as frightening as it felt.That trip was
not for the faint of heart on some areas.I was told that these days were some of
the better ones as well.

And from Jim Isbell the photographer

Yes, these were not exactly windy days. The AVERAGE annual wind on
Corpus Christi Bay is 16 mph!! To get that high an average there are
a lot of days when winds of 40 mph with 55 mph gusts is normal. There
are a few says in the early spring and late fall when the winds lay,
but rarely below 5-10 mph.

Jason - gets the racing bug - far from relaxing our intrepid sailor - who has been something of an experimenter and laid back dude has decided that he likes racing ... Big Time. (at least as an adjunct to all his other PDR activities - the man is a powerhouse - I'd be looking for a sleep if I was him, but ...

From what I understand.(well to my understanding) I have been offered leadership
of the San Antonio area which I have accepted.I am going to scout woodlawn lake and a couple others.

I am also going to start hosting some races.I want to try to get
houston,austin,dallas,san antonio,and all points in between, racers together at
a central lake somewhere close to all of us or atleast in reasonable driving
distance.Make it a race/messabout/campout/whatever.

I don't want to limit it to just PDRs either.I believe by letting other boat types into our strange little world we will actually convince others to join our ranks.I know sounds cultish.But we do sort of have a cult following with the exception of the black NIKEs and poison koolaid.None of that in our group please.I would love suggestions and people to throw ideas in.

Any lake ideas would be great.Waco has an ok lake I also am not against
driving to austin or even magnolia beach for a weekend.I would like to get a
consistent once a month race/messabout going.Show up if you can if not well,
there will be another one.

I have been in this group for some time now well since hull # 31 and have only
raced 6 or 7 times.Thats rediculous! So that being said I am going to check my
schedule and start hosting races.

I will get back to yall about the scheduling and hopefully we can come to an
agreement on a central lake so we can all get racing the fast little boxes.
sunburn and spray

Jason Nabors

Best wishes
Michael Storer

American Tim Cleary has been playing again.

He has just made a nice long mast for his PDR and bought a tarp to make a sail out of.

But looking at the tarp and thinking about cutting the triangular sail (or two) out of it ... he got to thunking!

So he went for one sail BEFORE cutting the tarp.



And he even managed to get it upwind OK in the light breeze. This is his track.



Tim has been gradually improving his boats over the last few years. One of the big jumps in his boat performance was making a really accurate centreboard or leeboard for his boat. I suspect if he was using his old board he would not have been able to get upwind at all.

When I saw the pic ... I thought it looked like one of the Nile River sailing barges ... but without the barge!!!

MIK

Andrew Linn has put a great pictorial with comments up about hte Texas 200 mile sailing event that three PDRS did.
http://andrewlinn.com/080609texas200/index.htm



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