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4th August 2013, 01:12 AM #1Senior Member
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Rough Cut Wood Sizes - OZ Goose 12ft build in Germany
G'day all,
I haven't posted for a while but I've been dropping in and been keeping up with what's happening. There're some really great builds going on. There's some very talented and skilled people out there. As the Germans say "respect".
Getting to the gist of things. I'm planning on getting the timber for my Goose build cut at the timber supplier and they stated that they want exact cut sizes. How much over-size from the finished size should I allow for the rough cut. I'm mainly concerned about the mast timber and the gunwales. The Oregon and WRC is damned exspensive and I can only buy it in 4x2 (100mmx50mm) up to 6m and as I said they want me to give exact cut sizes.
A couple of questions for Mik if you read this . Is there a specific place for the butt join on the side panels of the Goose. I can order the 3.1m sheets of Okume/Gaboon again. I'll use 6mm for the bottom panel and 5mm for the rest. I was also thinking of hiding the butt join on the bottom panel under the foredeck but that would mean it would be under the mast step. Is there a trap there?
Also on the Goose side panel supplement on the left hand bottom corner I'm guessing that should read all 457mm measurements from here and not that the first measurement is 305mm.
Thanks for any help.
Kev.
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4th August 2013 01:12 AM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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4th August 2013, 09:42 AM #2
For the Goose you really can substitute any softwood that is straight grained and knot free. We even used finger jointed construction pine for alll the parts glued to ply on two faces (the ply on two faces will prevent the weak finger joints from breaking). I'm not sure if you are doing the original Mk2 goose, or like some working through the OzRacer RV plan and doing a Goose based on that.
For the Mk2 derived goose the chinelog is the only exception and can't be finger jointed despite having plywood glued to two faces - it has to be laminated or bent and the weak fingerjoints don't like that.
Normally cheaper commodity type timber suppliers have something close to 19 x 19 as a finished product with clean planed faces. And something close to 19 x 45 or 40. That's the intention - to get cheaper timber that is prepared for the mass market.
Straight grain, light (specific gravity of 0.5 or a bit less, glues well - that's all you need. Usually pine of some type is reasonably cheap.
The parts that will need to be custom cut are the spar materials, the centrecase and rudder spacers and the staves for the centreboard and rudder blade.
The spar timber needs to be very clean - straight grain, no knots or deviations (definitely not finger jointed but any pine or other good gluing wood will be OK. This is a budget boat.
A couple of questions for Mik if you read this . Is there a specific place for the butt join on the side panels of the Goose. I can order the 3.1m sheets of Okume/Gaboon again. I'll use 6mm for the bottom panel and 5mm for the rest. I was also thinking of hiding the butt join on the bottom panel under the foredeck but that would mean it would be under the mast step. Is there a trap there?
Also on the Goose side panel supplement on the left hand bottom corner I'm guessing that should read all 457mm measurements from here and not that the first measurement is 305mm.
Thanks for any help.
Kev.
Checking now ... the dimensions all come from the arrows unless i have overwritten on the computer. Hope that is not the case! I'll get back to you shortly.
Michael
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4th August 2013, 10:17 AM #3
Howdy Flatdog,
With the drawing discrepancy ..
Which version of the plans do you have - is the file the "lted" version?
My version shows it correctly - can you give me the name of the file and the page number? That's just the sort of error I want to get rid of!
MIK
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4th August 2013, 05:50 PM #4Senior Member
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I'm not sure if you are doing the original Mk2 goose, or like some working through the OzRacer RV plan and doing a Goose based on that.
Which version of the plans do you have - is the file the "lted" version?
Is "OzGoose RV" the official name for the boat now? Last time I asked you seemed a bit unsure. I thought maybe you could call it the "Stretch Duck" .
I have seen finger jointed pine here in Germany once. I really haven't gone looking for it. The pine here in the hardware stores makes a dogs hind leg look straight and is full of knots. The only place to buy wood here is from specialists and of course that costs.
Thanks for the help Mik
Kev
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7th August 2013, 05:25 AM #5Senior Member
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Goose Weight.
Hi Mik.
I've been trying to find the weight of the Oz Goose. I found the Oz Racer 65 lbs (30kg) but I couldn't find a weight for the Oz Racer RV either. Using the extra sheet of ply wouldn't make that much difference I would have thought.
The reason I'm asking is after using my trailer today I decided to run a measuring stick over it and found the Goose would stick over the back by more than a meter. I'd never get away with that here. Maybe later I might build a trailer but for the moment I want to keep the cost down. The other option is to roof top it. I'd just have to buy wider roof racks. Also there's the question of the weight. Should I take out a gym membership now? Has anybody weighed one? If it's too heavy I'll maybe build the RV but I'd much prefer the Goose.
You said you wanted to know about any discrepances Mik. On your plan site the Oz Racer page has the Goose as 12ft (3.5m) and on the Oz Goose page as 12ft (3.2m). When I measured it up from the side panel plan its 3.66m.
Just though you'd like to know. Maybe some of this technical German precision is rubbing off on me .
Thanks, Kev.
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7th August 2013, 08:45 AM #6Senior Member
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Hi Mik,
I came across this https://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/p...videos-100265/
Down the page there is a post with Bob Alstons boat weighing in at 120lbs (55kg). Thats getting a bit weighty.
it hits the antipodean target of 8 to 10 lbs a foot nicely even built of standard exterior ply.
I found and liked this also Open Goose Sailboat Group | Welcoming all squarish boats … and the not so squarish.
Cheers, Kev
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7th August 2013, 10:32 AM #7
Hi Kev, thanks for the correction
The gaboon will be a huge help in keeping the weight down. Have you bought it yet? If not you could push the weight savings further by making the hull sides and deck out of 4mm gaboon it's durable, but with the Goose I was really thinking in terms of construction grade ply so specifying 6mm all round would suit most people's budgets.
I always say that light weight boat building is something that is a process. If at every point you look at the options and choose the lightest one .. then you end up with a light boat. But get a bit relaxed at any point and you can gain more weight than you have lost. Don't skimp on glue though ... just scrape excess off after waiting for 15 or 20 minutes for absorption.
The Goose with the 120lbs weight was very standard construction ply and cheap available timber not selected for weight.
One huge weight difference (if you can find it) is to use paulownia timber for all the internal construction. Just checked google ... there seem to be firms selling it in Germany.
https://www.google.com/search?q=deutschland+paulownia
It might also be cheaper than many timber alternatives.
Places to use it:
Anything internal in the boat except mast step and parner and the cleats for the leeboard case and the rudderbox spacer
Foils - with a hardwood trailing edge lamination
It would be a bit of a breakthrough boat if you went with Paulownia.
Hope this helps!
MIK
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7th August 2013, 05:57 PM #8Senior Member
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Hi Mik,
Thanks for the help.
It would be a bit of a breakthrough boat if you went with Paulownia.
The local hardware here has Blauglockenbaum (Paulownia) in 18mm x 300mm x 2000mm. With a little bit of scarfing it would work out great. If I laminated a couple of pieces could I also use it for the mast-core blocking. Does the core blocking at the base have to be out of something a bit stronger ?
It's looking like the Goose build is on again. Was there ever really a doubt ? After reading through many threads on this site I think there's a condition called "pre-build jitters". I know I had it with the Eureka. With the first build there's the pre-marking out, cutting, epoxy, filleting etc. jitters .
Cheers, Kev.
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8th August 2013, 08:14 AM #9
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8th August 2013, 05:58 PM #10Senior Member
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Hi Mik,
don't use the Goose timber list.
I have cubic meter prices for the wood available here;
Paulownia 1,117 euro
Oregon 1,547 "
Hemlock 1,760 "
Western Red Cedar 2,100 euro
I can only get Paulownia in 200mm and 300mm wide 18mm thick x 2000mm boards here in the south but that will work fine for the framing. I can order any size I want but I have to buy by the cubic meter . In the North there are a lot more options but the transport prices kill it. Paulownia is relatively unknown here but I'm fairly certain in a couple of years as it becomes better known the prices will be up with the other imported timbers.
I'm going for Red Cedar for the gunwales and a mix of Red Cedar and Paulownia with beech on the trailing edge for the foils. With the Gaboon I think It'll look great. Oregon for the masts and spar/spars. Not having sailed alone before I have no idea of what rig to use. Also I'll strenghten the transom to take an electric motor as my wife is very keen on getting her fishing licence so the Goose will double as a fishing punt. After the finish I achieved with the Eureka there's no way I'm going to paint the Goose. I can't put paint over wood unless it's to hide something . I'll cover the whole boat in epoxy and glass the bottom. I'm not sure whether I'll put runners on the bottom yet.
I know that you like to see boats built cheaply like the ducks Mik but I have trouble building things like that. It's just me. Besides I have fast learnt the Germans don't do cheap . I can see it taking a couple of years to build the Goose but I'm not in any hurry. Besides on the weekends in the summer we'll be out in the Eureka. Also I have a lot more serious house renovating to do.
Cheers, Kev.
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8th August 2013, 10:26 PM #11
Hi Kev,
Just a caution to check on. My knowledge of beech is that it is a bit oily and not so good for gluing (or glassing).
Check that it glues well with normal preparation.
MIK
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8th August 2013, 11:14 PM #12Senior Member
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Hi Mick,
I used beech on my centre spreader and seats in the Eureka. I laminated it with the Abachi. The center spreader was cosmetic but the strip under the seats was to stop the Abachi from splitting. it's not under any great stress as my wife and I are both around 70kg.
Also with the wood prices there's 19% gst. on top.
Cheers, Kev.
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19th August 2013, 05:57 PM #13Senior Member
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Rudderbox Framing.
After looking at the material I've got laying around I'm going to start my build with the rudderbox. Looking at the plans it says that with the framing the width can be a minimum of 42mm. That makes the framing on each side about 5mm and the timber list gives the framing at 19 x 45.
Can anyone give me an idea what width their framing is. I'm trying to build light but the suggested width seems extremely light and I'm imagining there is a lot of pressure on the base of the rudderbox.
I'm getting the fittings made so the width isn't critical.
Thanks Kev.
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19th August 2013, 08:27 PM #14
Howdy Kev,
The external framing on the rudderbox sides can be down to 12 x 40 and still be strong enough.
The trick of the rudderbox is that there are no fore and aft forces - the rudder moves back and up if it hits anything. The steering forces are dealt with by the tiller pushing directly on the sides of the rudder blade (don't forget the bolt through the tiller/rudderbox juncture or the box will self destruct) so there is little force on the box. And finally the tendency of the bottom of the rudder to go sideways is resisted by the bolted on rudder fitting at the bottom of the box.
This means that the ply sides are really only there to hold the rudder in place and connect the bottom of the box to the top. It is utterly reliable as drawn - providing you fit all the bolts
MIK
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19th August 2013, 08:37 PM #15Senior Member
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Paulownia.
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the reply.
Can I use Paulownia on the framing ? It's all about weight after all .
Cheers, Kev.
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