Thread: Sailing my GIS

So I take it that my photos on flickr aren't working? Let me know and I will switch them to Photobucket. I have the settings on flickr set to public/anyone can view, and the links look perfect...

[QUOTE=Joost]
My experience is that the GIS will point directly at the wind when you let go of the tiller as you would expect a small open boat to do if the sail is set correctly. Then however, if not sheeting in hard, the boat bears off until the boat is on a 90 degree angle to the wind (it seems to remain there). [/QUOTE]

Exactly. When cruising along close hauled, if you let go of the tiller the boat arches nicely into the wind (weather helm I think is the term?). But the boat doesn't seem to stay pointed at the wind; rather it bears off and the sails regain power, in my experience.

If you want a break from sailing though all you need to do is point at the wind and lash the tiller hard over then as she is blown out of the wind and the sails start to power up, the tiller steers her right back into the wind where she stalls until she is blown off again. Repeat.

Remember too that Sam had no downhaul. No downhaul means he would have had a massively floppy luff in that wind, so no chance at all of staying head to wind with a sail in that condition. Then he also had flooded tanks, which was a condition accumulating prior to his capsize from his description of it starting to behave in an unexpected way. I think there is a big lesson for us all to come out of his experience.....

His GIS wasn't seaworthy
His sail wasn't rigged correctly
He was single-handed in a big blow without a crew
He was single-handed in a big blow without a reef
He attempted a gybe without a downhaul installed, and went "chinese"
He didn't secure his paddles which were lost
He had no non-slip installed

Sam, by the sounds of it, I'm both surprised and glad you're still with us to tell your tale! But for that fisherman who happened to come by to assist, things could have become quite nasty.....

Originally Posted by SamMilo

So I take it that my photos on flickr aren't working? Let me know and I will switch them to Photobucket. I have the settings on flickr set to public/anyone can view, and the links look perfect...

No joy, still can't see any pictures. Maybe others should chime in on this in case its something screwy on my end.

Originally Posted by woodeneye

Remember too that Sam had no downhaul. No downhaul means he would have had a massively floppy luff in that wind, so no chance at all of staying head to wind with a sail in that condition. Then he also had flooded tanks, which was a condition accumulating prior to his capsize from his description of it starting to behave in an unexpected way. I think there is a big lesson for us all to come out of his experience.....

His GIS wasn't seaworthy
His sail wasn't rigged correctly
He was single-handed in a big blow without a crew
He was single-handed in a big blow without a reef
He attempted a gybe without a downhaul installed, and went "chinese"
He didn't secure his paddles which were lost
He had no non-slip installed

Sam, by the sounds of it, I'm both surprised and glad you're still with us to tell your tale! But for that fisherman who happened to come by to assist, things could have become quite nasty.....

Come on. Are posts on this forum usually quite so critical? Kind of surprised at the tone. I was in a pretty small lake in Texas, in a life jacket about 200 yards from shore and all week we had been having 90 to 100 degree days. I was never in any danger (ok maybe some gun nut might have shot me...this is Texas.) I would have been very sad to have sunk my boat, but I was easily in reach of shore. My decision was to grab the bowline and drag it to shore or to wait to recover some strength or to wait for someone to steady the boat for me. As I was deciding someone came along and steadied the boat.

When I put my boat in the water I had no idea my tanks would take on water. I had recently added more silicone around the edge because I knew this was the one place where I had a mistake and deviated from the plans. I realize now that the boat wasn't seaworthy but one of the points of my post was that it still sailed really well with flooded tanks. Of course I realize this has to be fixed. I think it's not too uncommon for people to build a boat and in the first few months of sailing discover some flaws...

The sail was rigged fine. There are plenty of sailing conditions where you slacken the downhaul. I realize having a tight downhaul would have improved my performance.

I'm pretty sure that there is no mention of non-skid in the plans. I followed the plans. Now I am making adjustments and it is obvious that I need some non-skid.

My post was really just for fun...

Originally Posted by SamMilo

Come on. Are posts on this forum usually quite so critical? Kind of surprised at the tone. I was in a pretty small lake in Texas, in a life jacket about 200 yards from shore and all week we had been having 90 to 100 degree days. I was never in any danger (ok maybe some gun nut might have shot me...this is Texas.) I would have been very sad to have sunk my boat, but I was easily in reach of shore. My decision was to grab the bowline and drag it to shore or to wait to recover some strength or to wait for someone to steady the boat for me. As I was deciding someone came along and steadied the boat.

When I put my boat in the water I had no idea my tanks would take on water. I had recently added more silicone around the edge because I knew this was the one place where I had a mistake and deviated from the plans. I realize now that the boat wasn't seaworthy but one of the points of my post was that it still sailed really well with flooded tanks. Of course I realize this has to be fixed. I think it's not too uncommon for people to build a boat and in the first few months of sailing discover some flaws...

The sail was rigged fine. There are plenty of sailing conditions where you slacken the downhaul. I realize having a tight downhaul would have improved my performance.

I'm pretty sure that there is no mention of non-skid in the plans. I followed the plans. Now I am making adjustments and it is obvious that I need some non-skid.

My post was really just for fun...

Sam,
I totally agree with you!

I think it is NOT very valuable for this forum to critize members for their "seaworthyness".

I think it's VERY valuable that SamMilo shared his experience and gave us a view of what could go wrong sailing a GIS. For me that's at least as interesting as all great succes stories and it shows his courage to do so.
Being an experienced dinghy sailer he should know what he was doing. He took a calculated risk pushing things to the limit and sometimes #### happens.
I have a strong racing and sea-sailing background and pushing things to the limits is where it's all about, to get better and faster boats and more knowledge about sailing.
I certainly do not encourage everyone to push sailing to the limits, but respect people who do and respect them even more when they share with us what didn't go right.

Sam, I'm still fairly new around here but this, in my experience, is one of the most civilized forums around. So don't get discouraged about posting. I really appreciate you sharing your adventure. It's very educational to see how things can go wrong. Pushing boats is big fun and sometimes they push back harder than expected (I sail a Hobie 16 so know all about that ) Keep doing your thing

Originally Posted by Watermaat

Sam,
I totally agree with you!

I think it is NOT very valuable for this forum to critize members for their "seaworthyness".

I think it's VERY valuable that SamMilo shared his experience and gave us a view of what could go wrong sailing a GIS. For me that's at least as interesting as all great succes stories and it shows his courage to do so.
Being an experienced dinghy sailer he should know what he was doing. He took a calculated risk pushing things to the limit and sometimes #### happens.
I have a strong racing and sea-sailing background and pushing things to the limits is where it's all about, to get better and faster boats and more knowledge about sailing.
I certainly do not encourage everyone to push sailing to the limits, but respect people who do and respect them even more when they share with us what didn't go right.

Thanks for this. I did have a blast and the GIS is an amazing boat.





Here is a try at posting the pics of my boat from another day sailing (earlier--July of this year).

Originally Posted by SimonLew

Sam, I'm still fairly new around here but this, in my experience, is one of the most civilized forums around. So don't get discouraged about posting. I really appreciate you sharing your adventure. It's very educational to see how things can go wrong. Pushing boats is big fun and sometimes they push back harder than expected (I sail a Hobie 16 so know all about that ) Keep doing your thing

I was sailing a Hobie 16 on Lake Coeur d'Alene in northern Idaho ten years or so ago, and had a very similar capsize. Again a jibe that went wrong...but I snapped the boom on that boat

Pictures coming through loud and clear and your GIS is looking quite fine.

Strong wind gybes in the H16 are not for the faint of heart. And they sound like something is going to let go when the sails whomp across but amazingly the boat stays together. You must have done a pretty spectacular one to break the boom.

Howdy,

Try to keep silicone off the boat. It makes future repairs or painting tricky. I will check the plans to make sure the current one has a reference to the non skid too - thanks for that.

Just wanted to share something that happened on Lake Timothy.

After Gerry and his roving dog capsized Sisu it was towed to shore because they were worried about Gerry getting cold.

So I helped to right and bail the boat on shore before re-rigging.

My plan then was to go for a short sail just to show everything was OK. So I neglected to put the oars back in. I kinda think in terms of a paddle as an auxiliary so it never really penetrated that they were the auxiliary power. Someone actually asked me whether I wanted them passed to me.

Anyway my five minute sailing plan fell apart for two reasons.
1/ because I realised BobWes had not been for a sail in the Goat and I did not reassess the auxiliary power.
2/ it was fun out there.

Then the woodscrews that held the rudder fittings pulled out. An unexpected problem.

Glad I was with BobWes as I asked him to drop the sail and ... well ... it was done and done quick. We both realised that the boat was making reasonable speed and was controllable in the right direction ... but conditions were variable and the wind may have changed. So we got a tow from the Coresound.

I think I've changed my thinking in that I
1/ learned to ALWAYS carry my lifejacket and wear it if there is any doubt at all after two boats suffered structural failures - this was in my teens.
2/ learned to ALWAYS wear a bike helmet after I went to a friend's house while I was in uni - just 4 mins ride away. I decided to go fast when going home, hit a small stone that knocked me off balance and line and then hit a gas cover that was proud of the road by an inch and a half. My front wheel crossed over and then I went over and landed on my head. So Bicycle Helmets ALWAYS since I was 20.

Again thanks to everyone for sharing their info and thoughts ... whichever way it came out!

Best wishes
MIK

Originally Posted by Watermaat

Great story !

Could easy happen to me too. I also like to push sailing to the limit single handed, but I am 52 and certainly less fit than you.

I am still building, but already decided to get:
a "boxed" closed middle seat to have more flotation and less to bail out ( and keep things dry ) after a capsize.
two 2-3 inch stern tubes through the aft compartment, to get rid of the bulk of water after righting
two 2 inch tubes through this boxed middle seat, to get water from front part of the cockpit to these stern tubes.
and perhaps a few "leaky" dinghy selfbailers too ?

I was surprized to hear you were bailing from outside GIS? Couldn't you be inside, f.e. on your knees or was it not stable enough? I think it's easier to climb in GIS full of water ?

Ralph

Being a bit too far on the wrong side of 50 I am following this thread with a lot of interest! Must send daughter/nephews/son-in-law on sail training courses soon - with capsize recovery training to include hauling water-logged old-aged pensioner 'captain' back in over the side

Watermaat - I´m getting closer to hull assembly and have been wondering about the whole boxed-in middle seat idea. Could you post some pics as you progress with this so we can look over your shoulder?

Ta

Steve

Hi Steve,

I will certainly do so if I get there.

The way I am planning to make it;

First I need to get at the stage that both sides are connected to all frames, before bottum panel gets fixed. At that stage I will be able to measure an extra frame somewhere 30-40 cm before the central #3 frame. This frame will be about similar shape as this #3 frame, but split by the centerboard case.
After fixing the bottum,turning and fixing centerboard case I can fix this extra frame ( basically two half frames ) in the hull. On top of frame #3 and this extra frame I will fix the central seat. To make acces I made two round holes in #3 frame that can be closed. ( I do not want inspection holes in the seat, since you have to sit on that frequently. )

Keep you updated on my "another dutch GIS thread "

Originally Posted by SimonLew

....but this, in my experience, is one of the most civilized forums around. So don't get discouraged about posting.

I'd have to agree with this comment. But we love bad jokes, especially Mik, and we love pictures of Storer Boats here.

Clint