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  1. #1
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    Default Sailing version of the Quick Canoe Electric with Drop-in Outriggers

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    All the information to do this is in different places ... I am trying to consolidate it. Michael
    Have plans been consolidated yet? I'm starting to build the QCE. Before getting too far along, I would like to work out the details of how to make a decent sailing version of this with drop-in outriggers and rudder. From what I have been able to gather, in addition to the QCE plans, I will need the Drop-in Outrigger plans and probably the plans for the OzRacer-RV for the rudder and sail.

    Even with the plans, I still need to know the best placement of the outriggers, the mast, and how/where to reinforce the hull (with a bulkhead?). Also, I would like to know how to get the "extra page or three of drawings for a bigger rig for the drop in outrigger available free to purchasers", if bigger outriggers are needed. Any other helpful info on how to pull this all together?

    Thanks,
    Barry

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  3. #2
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    Howdy Barry,

    Sorry about the delays. I will get you something this week with some locations etc.

    You will need the outrigger plans, but any extra info on rudders, foils, sails etc will be available free of charge. The sail I have chosen is the top part of the OzRacer sail because we know that has a nice shape. The lateen I quickly sketched up a few years ago does have the area too far back.

    Also for really good sailing performance a daggerboard along the side of the QCE hull will add a huge amount including a nice sailing balance and better tacking. Worth considering.

    The main changes to the QCE hull are gluing small doublers inside the hull for saddles (deck eyes in the USA, I think) to lash the crossbeams down to - some extra laminations in the gunwale, a strip of ply down the middle of the transom to reinforce the rudder fittins and a mast step glued in. Everything comes out of the boat neatly as the partner is incorporated into the forward crossbeam of the outriggers.

    Michael

  4. #3
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    May 2013
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    Hey Michael,

    I appreciate the prompt reply and look forward to you sending what I need to pull it all together well. I now have both the QCE and Drop-in Outriggers plans.

    I had anticipated the need for most of the main changes to the QCE hull you mentioned, except for the extra laminations in the gunwale. Will this give the hull added strength instead of installing a bulkhead you had mention in another thread as possibly needing?

    I plan to make the sail out of poly tarp or some similar inexpensive and readily available material. I kind of liked the idea of a simple lateen sail, which gives a good sail area, allows for a shorter mast, and helps keep the boom and bottom of sail a reasonable distance above heads. However, I will follow whatever you recommend as the best option for the sail.

    For the dagger board, since I am just getting started and my options are wide open, what do you think about building a case for it on the inside side of the hull? This might make it easier to slip the dagger board in and out, but perhaps you already have a good setup for outside mounting of the dagger board.


    Just FYI, what I mean by a “decent sailing version” is something that is built to sail better than just a canoe with the small drop-in sail rig. I envisage the sailing version of the QCE with outriggers to be stable and big enough to take my wife and two young kids (5 & 7) out for an easy sail and to be sturdy and rigged well enough to go out by myself or with a friend and have fun. I also envisage hauling it on the roof rack of my minivan with a few odd bits inside. Most, if not all, of the sailing will be on lakes and rivers nearby.

    Finding the right materials has been a challenge. Boat building materials in my area are as scarce as hen’s teeth. For the wood, I decided to make do with what I can readily find locally. The best ¼” plywood I can find is exterior BC pine with 3 laminations. It has some knots and cracks on the C side and fewer cracks and a plug or two on the B side. My plans are to put the B side on the outside of the boat and fill any cracks and knot voids on both sides with epoxy before painting/finishing, but in order to keep costs down, I wasn’t planning on applying epoxy on the whole boat. For the board wood I was able to find pretty good knot free pine and poplar.

    Thanks,
    Barry

  5. #4
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    Jul 2005
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    Howdy,

    I am almost ready with a final version of all the mods. I hope tomorrow I will have it finalised.

    Replies below

    Quote Originally Posted by BNN View Post
    Hey Michael,

    I appreciate the prompt reply and look forward to you sending what I need to pull it all together well. I now have both the QCE and Drop-in Outriggers plans.

    I had anticipated the need for most of the main changes to the QCE hull you mentioned, except for the extra laminations in the gunwale. Will this give the hull added strength instead of installing a bulkhead you had mention in another thread as possibly needing?
    I am trying to work that through That's the main bit that is not resolved yet. It might make sense to have a bulkhead or part bulkhead under the front crossbeam as the mast is in that area too.

    I plan to make the sail out of poly tarp or some similar inexpensive and readily available material. I kind of liked the idea of a simple lateen sail, which gives a good sail area, allows for a shorter mast, and helps keep the boom and bottom of sail a reasonable distance above heads. However, I will follow whatever you recommend as the best option for the sail.
    The shape I have is a modified OzRacer lugsail. So I have the curves of the edges of the sail from the boats that have been built already. You can make of Polytarp or buy real sailcloth to make the sail. The real sailcloth is much better for a multihull because of the much greater stability putting load on the sailcloth. Either way it is a simplified building method with no broadseaming. You just need to stitch up a big enough piece to cut the final sail out of but with enough extra to turn a hem over. I'm including the instructions for that.

    For the dagger board, since I am just getting started and my options are wide open, what do you think about building a case for it on the inside side of the hull? This might make it easier to slip the dagger board in and out, but perhaps you already have a good setup for outside mounting of the dagger board.
    Bingo! We are of one mind.

    Just FYI, what I mean by a “decent sailing version” is something that is built to sail better than just a canoe with the small drop-in sail rig. I envisage the sailing version of the QCE with outriggers to be stable and big enough to take my wife and two young kids (5 & 7) out for an easy sail and to be sturdy and rigged well enough to go out by myself or with a friend and have fun. I also envisage hauling it on the roof rack of my minivan with a few odd bits inside. Most, if not all, of the sailing will be on lakes and rivers nearby.
    The small drop in sailing rig really is for local sailing inside a bay or something like that. Phil Bolger used the phrase "when spending time rather than covering distance is the aim". The outrigger when sorted will be able to sail very well.

    Best wishes
    Michael

  6. #5
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    May 2013
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    North Carolina
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    Hey Michael,

    I've gone about as far as I can go with the QCE hull without the modifications. The only things left are the seats and keel, which I am waiting for the modified keel design before completing. I'll start on the outrigger hulls after getting the wood this weekend. It's taking a bit longer, but I'm a slow detailed worker with young kids to spend time with.

    My wife is impressed with how it is coming along. She wished she would have taken pictures of the flat cutout plywood before it took shape. My kids keep asking, "Are you gonna finish it today?" I like how it is shaping up. The shape looks a lot better than the Dirty Banna (not to be critical of Dan Stoval). You did a nice job with improvements.

    I wasn't able to use the duct tape method. The tape wouldn't adhere well to the external BC grade plywood I had to use and the plywood had contrary warping that tape couldn't hold. After only a few feet of taping, I quickly realized it wasn't going to work, so I switched to stitching with cable ties and even had to use stainless wire at the bow to get the plywood to behave. Not a problem. It took a bit more time, but I wasn't planning on setting any speed records on build time. In the end, it shaped up nicely.

    I finally decided to add to my boat budget and epoxy most, if not all, of the boat. After all the time, effort, and money I'm putting into it (more time and effort than money) I want it to last and be more durable. I'll wait until after the modifications are done (leeboard case, mast step, reinforcing points to attach outriggers, etc.) before apoxy coating.

    Still having fun,
    Barry

  7. #6
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    May 2013
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    North Carolina
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    While trying to wrap my head around the mods I received for the trimaran (sailing version of the QCE with outriggers) I've been working on the outriggers. Again, the unavailability in my area of the right kind of plywood and dimensions of other wood are making this a challenge. I had to settle for a bit thicker ply that's not even exterior. I had to modify the bulkheads and settle with a less rounded shape and more of a V shape.

    I also decided for the crossmembers, hopefully not to the horror of MIK, to make do with three solid wood layers instead of two for top and two for bottom and spacers in the middle and making them with no curvature. 7mm or 1/4 inch thick solid wood is not available. I used 3/4 inch, which is readily available. I figured this was just for forming the curvature anyway. The crossmember mods gave only about an inch curve at the ends, which would have made for more time and effort and money (epoxy) than it's worth. It's simpler and should be at least as solid as the original design, but won't look as light or nice. I'll work on making them look better, perhaps by rounding off the ends more and the edges. It's my understanding that MIK still considers the QCE just a "disposable" boat, so he shouldn't be too put out with my necessary shortcuts.

    MIK's mods for the placement of the outrigger crossmembers and the reinforcing bulkhead in the QCE place the center spreader directly over the dagger case. Of various options, I'm leaning towards shifting the crossmember and bulkhead placement back about 5 inches, glue the center spreader to the back of the bulkhead instead of a reinforcement in front, and extending the dagger case a few inches for the daggerboard to clear the center spreader.

    I've got to get back to work now. I just wanted to give an update for anyone interested in this thread.

    -Barry-

  8. #7
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    Aug 2011
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    G'day Barry,
    It sounds like your build is coming along nicely. As for material availability, there are quite a few here that have had to use what they could. One of the great features of Michaels plans is that they are flexible to a certain point. With my first build the only material to plan was the ply. The rest was what was available here. It all woks out in the end . The most important thing is to enjoy the build and as you said, have fun.

    Any chance of some photo's ?

    Cheers, Kev.

  9. #8
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    The basic structure of the outriggers is almost done. Just having the plywood to specs would have made a difference. Because of having to settle with a less rounded shape for the amas (because of the poor flexibility of the plywood I had to use), I'm now challenged with how to resolve mounting the stainless bolts. The length bolts I need to use are too long to angle up through the mounting holes in the amas. MIK's design calls for gluing them in permanently before gluing on the top face of the ama. The akas are then fastened on with wing nuts. I'm wondering if T-nuts mounted in the amas would be a good solution. Then I could run the bolts I have down through the top of the akas and screw them into the amas. Another option would be to purchase threaded rod, cut to size, push through from top, lock from turning with two nuts underneath, then glue into place like what is called for in MIK's plans.

    Now that I can lay the outriggers on the QCE, my attention is back to deciding where to place them, the bulkhead and the daggercase. Unless MIK pipes in, or someone else has a better idea, it looks like the approx. 5 inch shift aft is the best solution. I wouldn't think 5 inches fore or aft in a fifteen and a half foot boat would make much of a difference. Since I'll be sitting aft of center, then shifting the outriggers slightly aft should work OK.

    I intend to post some photos some day. I think it is shaping up nicely, even though I've taken some liberties with MIK's plans, mostly due to the lower quality plywood and not having other wood the right size as in the plans. Even with these challenges, I'm still enjoying the build.

    -Barry-

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wilder, VT, USA
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    71
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    Hey Barry,
    I'm reading up post of people that have made the Storer's Drop In Outriggers. I've got 4 panels shaped of top of the line 3mm Okume plywood that have sat around for several years and I'm ready to build some bulk heads. The QCE has always looked like the boat to mount them on, but first off I'll get them my old fiberglass canoe. Already have a rudder built on that.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    In the hills of Southern Indiana
    Posts
    1

    Default QCE trimaran

    Barry, I'm way behind the curve on the QCE Trimaran. I currently have a Proa that I sail. Like you, +8 years behind, I was wondering how it all came out. Finding information, photos, and videos on completed QCE Trimarans has been less than easy. I would really like to see your completed vessel and any recommended modifications. Being 70+ a tri is attractive to me. Anything you can do for me would be appreciated. Land locked in Indiana people gawk at my outrigger canoe on every lake I sail. Thanks in advance, J

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