Thread: Sliding seat for my BETH???

Hi Robert,
Yes .. some misunderstanding ... I thought the problem was holding the boat upright.

That can be done with the methods above for a lighter crewperson.



If you look at the angle of my body, you can see that relative to vertical I am not leaning out hard. Relative to the boat it looks like some angle. And there is quite some wind.

I think you should try the seat you have drawn. But at the same time read through the sailing methods above. They will help you a lot as well, particularly the downwind ones if they are not familiar. If you are not using them downwind then it is almost impossible to keep the boat flat.



This amount of leaning out is sometimes necessary in a big gust that comes unexpectedly. But nobody can do it for very long - you are right ... it is very stressful.

You can avoid that sort of stress most of the time with the sailing methods I wrote above.

The top photos is a position that can be held for a very long time. And that photo shows my response to a big gust.

For downwind sailing where I can't put my body on the side deck I usually sit down in the cockpit.

Bruce, when the wind is light you can't heel the boat to windward. It is a more dynamic balance than that ... the boat is narrow and without flare so once your body is outboard of the chine it tends to keep going over unless you balance your weight with the sail forces.

When the wind is light or heading downwind in moderate winds I sit down inside the cockpit. I fold my legs and (trying to describe ... not saying it is an ideal or perfect method) - I am sitting on one buttock with my arm up on the windward side deck. My legs are folded and the lower half of my legs are parallel with the leeward side of the boat. I use the methods above to keep the boat flat without having to jump in and out from cockpit floor to side deck.

I think the seat you are talking about will help some aspects of comfort. I don't think it needs to slide from side to side ... but just project out each side 300mm or so. You would have to heel over a long way for it to hit the water.

But I do recommend the technique for reaching and downwind ... because the whole reason for it is to immediately respond to get rid of heel and transform it into forward speed.

Or rather ... its total focus is keeping the boat flat and it is not dependent on weight or athletic ability ... providing you have enough space to leeward to steer down that way in gusts.

You never said whether you have more problems upwind or downwind.

Definitely give the seat a try ... it is quite modest and won't overstress the rig as you only aim to produce similar forces to normal leaning.

Best wishes
Michael

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Bruce, when the wind is light you can't heel the boat to windward. It is a more dynamic balance than that ... the boat is narrow and without flare so once your body is outboard of the chine it tends to keep going over unless you balance your weight with the sail forces.

I had almost forgotten the hull is without flare, so I can quite understand now what happens. I guess when running downwind in higher winds comes greater stability, so sitting in the side deck becomes possible, plus you have the added advantage of being able to adjust pressure with the mainsheet. Hehe, makes sailing the "hairy" Laser downwind seem quite tame by comparison. However, if the wind is a bit too much, you can always choose to go downwind by sailing angles, ie. broad reaching and gybing your way down your course, so you can always weigh up the amount of risk you are prepared to take and choose how you want to sail.

Beth sounds like a lot of fun to sail. Must build one some day. Do you think the building methods for the quick canoe will work for it?

Yes .. some misunderstanding ... I thought the problem was holding the boat upright.

I'm sorry. I showed a lot of images, and all mingled... I could not communicate what's going on...


First: It was a sudden strong gust, really much stronger than the rest of wind.
I'm not sure, that the sliding seat there to help! My body has a greater lean (therefore it was more efficient) than was possible with a sliding seat.

2nd: "Holding the boat upright." Yes, especially in long flights of larger water area like large lakes and lagoons etc.without static muscle tension. Winds up to 15 knots (and a bit more?)

3th: "Bench" for sitting no kneeling...

***
And for more of mingling ...

Moderate wind and strong gusts on tiny lake - fairly typical situation on inland waterways. The BETH is sailing generally leisurely (Force 3?) and enters into a zone of strong winds (Force 5?)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfK81NDTm1Y"]BETH "YuanFen" Jezioro Dziekanowskie - May 13 2011 ... - YouTube[/ame]


Thank you friends for all!

Hi Robert ...

to hold Beth up only really requires your bottom, bum, derrière, butt be over the side of the boat with your feet under the opposite side deck. I don't mean lots of leg beyond the side as well.

Have a careful look at this ... I never move my bottom further out than this. It is too tiring.



And ... here is the upper body posture. My lines are a bit more wavy because I edited the pic on Flickr where there is no straight line tool



Also observe closely ... it is a windy day. The boat is in a gust with a lull about 6 or 10 boat lengths ahead ... then another gust.

MIK

Oh ... looking at my knees .... it kinda looks like my knees are equal with the inside edge of the sided decks ... no ... its an illusion ... it is actually the tiller ... see how it doesn't match the curve of the side deck in front of my legs is completely different.

But if the proposed seat makes it easier for you that's great.

MIK

Robert,
Here are some photos of Meade Gougeon's (of West epoxy fame) 50-50 sailing-paddling canoe Woodwind. He is one of the best small boat sailors in the world. Note the comfortable seat with sheepskin cover and backrest so he can sleep sitting up. He doesn't get up and hike at all. He reduces sail as needed. Sail area is about 5 sM down to 1.5, as you can see in one photo. Another approach to canoe sailing. His boat may react differently to gusts than Beth because of the different hull shape as Joost noted.
Peter

Did you see the pics of Meade sailing the Goat owned by Simon Lew'



It is one of the threads on this forum. But here is how it was written up...

One of the nice surprises of the event was the launch of
Simon Lewandowski’s new boat, a Goat Island Skiff. With huge
lug rig, well cut by Doyle sails, this new boat was sailing all over
the place Friday, Saturday, and Sunday! Meade Gougeon sailed
her from the Atsena Otie beach and declared her a “sweetheart.”
That’s high praise coming from the wizard of West System
Epoxy! It’s a good thing that the bugs weren’t too bad, or Simon
may have had trouble picking them out of his teeth! That’s OK,
Simon... grins are good.

The link to Simon's story is here
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/h...2/index18.html

MIK

Missed this. Thanks Mik. Great boat, nice sail set and trim.

Thank you MIK and Peter!

The link to Meade Gougeon sailing the Goat Island skiff built by Simon.

MIK