Thread: Solo "Expedition" Sailboat

Hi MIK,

Yes thanks - just about to print it off and go study it by the fire, did wonder what was coming over but all explained when your warning arrived after the event! Isn't IT wonderfull. You do your best then the system thwarts you - thanks for the try tho'.

Chris

Hi MIK

think I did. At moment only checking e-mails on provider file server, will be back home (hopefully) on Saturday and will download all my e-mails. Thanks MIK for all the hard work, much more than planned I feel sure. Please let me know how to pay!! Paypal? Electronic transfer?

Here is link to Beano album, a kids comic annual for many many years ago, just checked and this link is a 2009 edition!

[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beano-Annual-2009-D-Thomson/dp/1845353498/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226607251&sr=8-1"]Amazon.co.uk: The Beano Annual 2009: D C Thomson: Books[/ame]

Skate board in alloy channels - great idea - lots of fun ahead.

Brian

Brian

Hi MIK,

spent the last couple of hours doing a mental build from the first instalment - all seems to make sense at present. I will reduce the cleats to 15mm where indicated and round over as suggested to reduce the weight. Have had enough of poxy filleting to last me quite a while with the kayak so will go for wood wherever possible. The slope on the floor between bulkheads 1 & 2 gives me a little concen, I see why it is the way it is but it would be an area for moisture to collect which could be easily overlooked. Used to very high humidity followed by low temps up here - condensation everywhere which needs lots of ventilation. It may be better down on the balmy south coast for Brian.

Started thinking of lead ingots with the same profile as the CBd bolted on the bottom, say in 5lb (2kg) lumps instead of the water ballast. How much do you think we would need to get the same righting moment? I was thinking of a bronze plate screwed on the bottom of the foil trapping a couple of 10mm captive nuts with long bolts running up into the foil so different amounts could be added depending on conditions / how frit the crew was. At a guess I would think 15lb (6 kg) would be the max the structure would comfortably take. I am trying to find a piece in Classic Boat Yard Notes by Adrian Morgan from about 5 years ago where he wrote up his water ballast system for his Skejt, used a bilge pump with a two way valve and a water bag from memory. seemed to work a treat. Probably see him on Tuesday so if I am still hunting will ask him then.

I think she is going to look good, although I am glad I am the builder and not the sailor. Looks very small to me - relatively speaking - in this case beam relative to my girth.

Keep up the good work
Cheers
Chris

Howdy Chris and Brian,

I would recommend fully epoxy sealing the inside of the boat. That way you don't have to worry about the moisture much at all.

Chris ... I am a very strong advocate for epoxy sealing in these types of structures, but I will still respect you in the morning if you do something else.

The Appendices for the PDRacer have a lot of info about how to keep the labour down and the quality up when using materials this way.

Did I ever tell you about the mildew in the first Goat Island Skiff after 14 years in the tropics with a pool of water inside and the cover over the top of the boat. Sauna-ing away.

The mildew formed BETWEEN the varnish and the epoxy. Water went through the varnish but then was stopped by the 'pox.

Told you I was an advocate!

Best wishes
Michael

Hi MIK

Always intended to follow the designers guidance on this, the first one, although if I were building for myself I would probably go my usual route of Balcotan (does need more care on the joints) and varnol soaking before umpteen coats of varnish. I suspect that where is is not visible everything would still be poxy coated - simply because it would be difficult to get to for maintenance. When your joints start protesting when you try and fold into small spaces you tend to think about future problems! As you have probably gathered from my previous boats I am something of a Varnish obsessive - I just love the process and have always found varnishing on poxy less satisfying. I do agree that for longevity with low maintenance it's the right way - which is why I will follow your book of words. Brian is a sailor - not a varnisher (correct me if I am wrong Brian) so the less time he has to spend maintaining and the more time on the water the happier he will be. The complete reverse of my attitude

Cheers

Chris

Do you want to know the truth Chris,

My head is with epoxy, but goodness gracious, my heart is with Varnish.

That waft when I open the tin and the nice brush needed to put it on and that mental zone of nothing you need to do a good job.

Aaaaah!

Michael

Originally Posted by Clarkey

You might even be able to get away with the seat a bit higher than that because of the raised floor - the blades will have to drop further to reach the water than in the Bumble.

Chris

Checked the Bumble again today against actual waterline - the rollocks of the RAID will be 17mm higher than the Bumble. Given my mass I suspect that Bumble is slightly down on her marks so there is probably b****r all in it. The difference is that the keel of the Bumble is deeper in the water allowing a more comfortable bend of the knee for geriatrics like me! A fascinating subject, I think Trim is going to have a 5star seat. The recently evicted Wood Duck Kayak build has a luxurious (lightweight) seat which is adaptable and can be clipped to the side panel when in sailing mode. I still fancy having a go at the yuloh idea as well.

Chris

Looking at a sliding seat set up the numbers are:

the seat is 144mm above the heel position ( ie the deck surface on RAID41), say 5 1/2" above the floor. The nice foam seat will be most of that.

The heel position is 24mm above the waterline, so seat 168mm above waterline

the rowlocks are 288mm above the water line

rowlocks are 1520 wide i.e. 5', with 8'8" oars

Not sure if this is any help.

On the epoxy sealing discussion, some of the suppliers are producing very thin epoxies to soak into bare wood as a primer/sealer such as this one from SP Systems

http://marinestore.co.uk/Merchant2/m...-systems-epoxy

is this approach of value for the interior tanks?

Brian (PS yes, sailor much more than varnisher)

I keep thinking of RAID41 as a canoe yawl. Not sure why, just a modern version of the old canoe yawls without the canoe stern. So I googled Albert Strange canoe yawls and this interesting page turned up. Describes a canoe yawl as like a decked sailing canoe only bigger, 16' to 20' long, 4' to 5' beam. Seems we have some heritage here

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....anoe_yawl.html



Brian

I think the comparison is very valid, I have certainly always thought of RAID41 this way - hence my earlier Yakaboo comment.

For some reason the fineness of the design didn't register when I first looked at the drawings but thinking about the numbers (15'6" x 4' if I recall correctly) this will be a very interesting cross between a sailing canoe and a performance dinghy.

Veering off at a considerable tangent I reckon that if you leave the rig at home and pop a tiny (2.5-3.5hp?) outboard on and use some of those comfy thermarest camping seats it would make a decent small displacement launch for bimbling about on the Thames with a picnic. You could even put a canopy on it - the supports could go in the mast steps!

Chris

Hi Chris,
Yes this is one slender boat, started marking out bulkheads today and had to keep stopping to check my tape wasn't fibbing. I think this is going to astonish all Brian’s sailing mates if he can keep her upright ( I am a natural pessimist!). I am getting a little concerned that the camping aspect of the boat is going to be negated if Brian indulges in too much Christmas Pud - there won't be room for him to turn over in his sleeping bag. She certainly won't fit my girth. On the other hand I am going to have plenty of room each side to move around in the Shed, there is only about a foot fore and aft but that is doable. It's the next build when I go into negative values on length minus 2ft so I shall have to extend the shed.
Chris

Chris (N) stop frightening me!!!! It's going to be fine!!!!

Chris (C) nice picture bimbling along the Thames. How about a Hobie Drive as discussed earlier.

Brian

Funny you should mention the mirage drive - it actually struck me that the RAID41 dimensions are not so far off those of the Swallow Boats pedal launch 'Winsome'.



Chris

Howdy Chris ...

I am on the little side ... but I can turn over in BETH ... which is only 32 inches!

The RAID41 will be like a double bed!!! A whole extra foot (and a little bit more) and it has the raised floor .. that was the pain with camping in Beth ... a bit of water and ... well it was easier to carry a light tent ... but at least sleeping aboard was an option!!

Michael
(tongue firmly in cheek)

PS .. Canoe Yawls .. when I build BETH I worked with David Wilson, who now works at Duck Flat, on his George Holmes "Ethel" which was building beside BETH.

I finished my build first -hehe.

For Ethel we used a tiny drawing of the cross sections blown up on a photocopier for the plan and we set it up and faired the temporary moulds with a batten. Planing down high spots and marking any low spots to remind ourselves to allow the cedar strips to run through fairly rather than nailing them onto the too low frame in that area. We ended up with a spectacularly fair boat. And David, being the artist he is made all the big and small details of the boat quite delicious.



Only problem with her is that Holmes had the mast too far back ... there is a weird tension problem as you ease the halyard. The peak drops a little which increased the distance between the peak and the tack ... you get a big tension crease between the two and the sail won't drop any further .. until you let the boom slide forward relative to the mast. Learned a lot about lug rigs from that boat and BETH at the same time!!

Our friend Tony Andrews built an Oughtred Peter Boat which is also pointy at both ends with a ketchyawl rig. So we formed a splinter group from the local wooden boat association. Our greeting became "Morning Yawl" at all times of the day and we had a secret handshake too.

Sorry I cannot give you any further details about the CYAofSA. Unless you have a boat pointy at both ends and has two masts ... smaller one at the back.

ALSO .... one of the design criteria of the original canoe yawls was that they had to fit in a railway guard van. The RAID41 has this echo as it is hoped it will be light enough to be roofracked OK. If it comes in at the same weight as a laser (130lbs hull) I will be very happy. Less and I will be exhuberant!

MIK