Thread: Solo "Expedition" Sailboat

Originally Posted by Boatmik

There is a new article up on Duckworks (by me) about the antipodean view of boat design and how it feeds back into what I do.

Have a look
Why Storer thinks that OZ and NZ Boat wooden boat design and construction can punch above its weight

Title of this article is: "Boat Design Without the Compromises"

I can see compromises there - performances are there but esthetics are first! Your boats are beautiful first than they have excellent performances ...

MIK

thank you for very kindly putting up a concept drawing of this "Solo Expedition" dinghy. I end up not sleeping thinking about her.

Your piece on design compromise summarises for me as ending as 1+1 = 1.5 with poor compromises, or with good judgement the total can be greater than the sum of its parts and 1+1= 3.

This Solo design looks like the latter to me. Sort of PDR + Beth + GIS + Rowboat all combined to create something even better. 1+1+1+1 = 5

You have drawn exactly

what I need
what I can afford
what I can build with my skill level and space available
what I can store at home and at the dinghy club space
where I want to go with my sailing, dinghy cruising with ability to land and haul up the beach.

Since you did put up the drawing, does this mean you want to develop and release a design? No pressure......

Brian

Howdy Brian,

Life is so cruel - I have dozens of boats in my head at any point and one of them sometimes escapes. I am going to be out of touch for 24 hours so I promise to think about it.

As you are building an OZ .. this boat will have a similar structure so if I go ahead it will be pretty basic stuff and you will have to look at the OZ plans and work out what to do.

MIK

Originally Posted by robhosailor

Title of this article is: "Boat Design Without the Compromises"

I can see compromises there - performances are there but aesthetics are first! Your boats are beautiful first than they have excellent performances ...

Actually I am not a great believer that you can make something beautiful and it will work well automatically. My sense is that the look of the boat is quite independent from the performance.

You can do a fast boat that looks ugly - or one that is just as quick that looks beautiful.

This is the problem with this boat as I have drawn it so far - it will look good but I want it to look better than that if possible. If I go ahead there will be opportunity for that.

Michael.

Originally Posted by Boatmik

You can do a fast boat that looks ugly - or one that is just as quick that looks beautiful.

Generally I agree

But most of Jim Michalak's boats works well but people say about them "ugly" often...
Probably their utilitarian 'instant' character is for "open mind" only

Yes life is cruel - if you have a dozen boats going round in your head your never going to get any sleep. Or is it the 3 o'clock thing where suddenly you wake up with the solution.

Perhaps basic plans and PDR instructions could start up this new design.

Brian

Playing Swallows and Amazons through the salt marsh creeks, I am gybing in 15 knots of wind in practically no depth of water as I follow my leader through unfamilar very narrow channels. Perfect kind of water for a shallow draft boat such as Solo. Got me thinking about the dagger board and gybing when its raised full up but still in place?
With Solo being very canoe yawlish, my question is this. Could twin leeboards offer benefits? Leave cockpit clear for camping. Clear for gybing. But the main question, could twin boards be more efficient? Easy to fit to those verical sides. Could be asymetric? Happy to be shot down, just wanted to ask. Twin boards, long and slender, water ballast - sounds like an Open 60.

Brian.

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

Playing Swallows and Amazons through the salt marsh creeks, I am gybing in 15 knots of wind in practically no depth of water as I follow my leader through unfamilar very narrow channels. Perfect kind of water for a shallow draft boat such as Solo. Got me thinking about the dagger board and gybing when its raised full up but still in place?
With Solo being very canoe yawlish, my question is this. Could twin leeboards offer benefits? Leave cockpit clear for camping. Clear for gybing. But the main question, could twin boards be more efficient? Easy to fit to those verical sides. Could be asymetric? Happy to be shot down, just wanted to ask. Twin boards, long and slender, water ballast - sounds like an Open 60.

Brian.

Michael can answer for himself.
Methinks not more efficent hydrodynamically. There is the point that deep narrow boards require depth of water to work properly. You describe shallow water ops. Twin wide, shallow boards would probably be better.

Then of course there are chine winglets / runners for really shallow water ops.

Thanks b.o.a.t.
The very shallow stuff is always downwind through our salt marshes. We would sail upwind out in the Solent or in the main river, then complete the circuit back through the marshes for fun. So that's what got me thinking about dagger boards sticking up whilst gybing.

The second bit about leeboards is for the deeper water upwind where full depth of board is usable. I have never sailed a box boat so am talking through zero experience - very dangerous indeed - but was thinking about sailing her on port tack, she is heeled somewhat. That angle of heel will imerse the starboard chine, and that chine will be twice as deep as the centre line of the hull where the centre dagger board would be. I think! Flat hull cross section means half way across is half as deep as all the way across?

Thus a starboard leeboard would start off more imersed than a central daggerboard, probably in more disturbed water though than the central blade. Foil could be asymetric too, and angle just correctly for that tack. Just wondering........... Brian.

G'day Brian
Looking at other designs eg. Bolger, I see that lee-boards & off-set centreboards in sharpies always seem to be at the widest point of the boat. My wild guess is that they have to be located thus for water flow close to the chine to be parallel to the board. Otherwise, turbulence, eddies, etc. That has cascading complications for sail plan & etc. Bolger discusses them at length, remarking that best results seem to be achieved with a 2 or 3 deg toe-in.

Short boards are less likely to foul the boom when gybing if stowed "up".
Gybing in 15kts wind in dead shallow water... shorten sail to maintain control & reduce likelihood of a dunking ?

My usual sailing spots include the narrow channels & shallows of which you speak. Much fun. But these days there is limited deep water between those shallows so I am biassed against deep boards.

cheers
AJ

Ok Michael, just to keep this on top of the pile....any progress on the RAID 41 boat? Damn, she's lovely! Tell me where to send my money! No pressure though.............

David

Quite right - the lead sailor had a reef in, took the trouble to check the forecast before she went out! I just turned up, wind was light so out I went. Great sail, and terrific beat back upwind out in the Solent.

If you sailed two PDR's against each other, one with the normal board and the other with it's board somehow clamped to the side, it would prove if leeboard on box boat any good?

Brian.

FWIW, I have to offer my opinion of Michael's raid boat: it is too narrow. I think many people want a sail-and-oar boat that can double as a dayboat for themselves and the family and a semi-competitive RAID boat for the occassional weekend...few people have a quiver of boats to choose from...they need some multi-use function to their boat or boats. I would suggest that the boat needs to be more along the proportions of the GIS with an added mizzen for safety and performance when switching from row to sail and vice versa. I think the ablity to stow oars and other gear would also be important. From the sounds of it the GIS rows pretty well...a removable thwart that can be added for tandem rowing would make the boat quite rowable for competitive purposes. Perhaps a little stretch to the GIS and slight fining up beam-wise would help ...but I think the GIS is what people want, just RAID-ified a bit. I am skeptical that the current boat as drawn would have wide appeal, at least with respect to the RAID/Wooden Boat Small REach Regatta people I know. I think the cabin is not necessary in the raid boat.

My 2-cents.

Clint

Originally Posted by Compass Project

FWIW, I have to offer my opinion of Michael's raid boat: it is too narrow.
Clint

Maybe we should have two threads here.
Methinks Raid & Solo boats are quite different craft, albeit with some similarities.

This one to bat the breeze on a solo expedition / day cruiser.
- reasonable performance secondary & complementary to being safe & dry
- manageable by 1 person
- flat sleeping & good dry stowage for 1 or 2 people for a week away

Another one to muse about a Raid Boat.
- fast & weatherly under sail or oars
- able to race in weather in which the Solo boat would stay in or seek shelter
- dry stowage for two, sleeping space optional ? (Raids tend to stay in on-shore accommodation?)

my 2.2c (incl GST) worth
cheers
AJ