Solo "Expedition" Sailboat

**Boatmik** · 2nd July 2008, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Compass Project

FWIW, I have to offer my opinion of Michael's raid boat: it is too narrow.
My 2-cents.
Clint

Howdy Clint,

You need to go back to the original post to find out what was wanted. My feeling is that this boat would probably not win a RAID - the boats are becoming very specialised. In fact you are right - If I wanted to design a boat to win a RAID it would be much more like the Goat Island Skiff with the changes as you described.

The idea was based on the three PDRs finishing the TEXAS200 - they were last - but they had such a blast participating. So what sort of boat would take care of the average good sailor - instead of the sailor having to take care of the boat as is the case with the normal RAID model.

The general problem with boats is that they are too cumbersome for one person to handle on land. This includes the Goat which is sensationally light compared to most boats of that size - 130lbs hull plus mast and rigging makes it hard work for one.

A very large part of this problem is bulk - length x beam x depth = weight and "cumbersome-ness" (cumberuity?). The narrow beam also means all ply except the bottom can be a lot thinner.

Most people can handle canoes on the land OK by themselves or drag them if needed. But they are too unstable.

BETH is dead easy in that type of use, but is not in the weight/beam/sail range for just anyone to jump in and sail (unless the wind is quite moderate). A good sailor could have a lot of fun with BETH in a RAID where the winds were consistent so there was not much rowing.

Another boat that has just proved the right size for one person with limited experience to handle on an expedition is the PDR, they are quite stable enough in quite a range of conditions. The weak point is that they are too slow - it looks like they can average about 4 knots - which is remarkable for a little boat that is heavily laden but the sheer hours of sailing each day are very punishing.

So this one is the width of the PDR to get the same stability and longer for a higher extra speed and less slowing when faced with waves. The OZ PDR is fine in a chop and may well not have quite the same problem that the three in the TEXAS200 had.

The expedition boat we are discussing here also has more sail to get good performance in light winds, but the mainsail is readily reefed to bring the sail down to quite small.

So - there is some thinking behind this single person boat. I really think that if you go out to the GIS length you need to reduce beam or depth or something to keep it within the realm of a single person to sail and handle.

The beam does make it sub-optimal for rowing - but then ... we are looking at the scores of people who participate rather than the very few who want to go to the edge of things.

In reality we know that RAIDing at the "bleeding edge" (to steal a computer term) is kinda fake. You take any performance catamaran in almost any of those events and have a couple of paddles on hand and you can finish the six day course in a day and a bit. Or if daily tasks - the other boats might take six hours but you will only take and hour and a half - the endurance aspect becomes meaningless. I'd be guessing a performance dinghy would also work well with two paddles.

Don't get me wrong - I love the RAID concept as a participatory one, but at the leading edge it will end up leading to tricky traditional boats as the rowing function cuts away at stability for sailing or real "horses for courses" rather than all round performers - for example the TEXAS200 is predominantly a stronger wind and downwind race.

Maybe it needs to become like the Bathurst car race - where only "production" designs are accepted with a certain number of boat launched already to filter out the "specials".

The other way is for everyone to ignore the "hot rods" and participate for a great experience - which is what this boat is capable of for one person - of course with the advantages I can give it of light weight, efficient rig and foils then it is very much going to punch above its weight. If it was two people the boat would look quite different.

Best wishes

MIK

**keyhavenpotter** · 2nd July 2008, 08:21 PM

Just to clarify and seperate the two boats being mixed up here:

Post no 16 in this thread has the GIS Raid sketch, a bigger GIS with mizzen, two people boat

Post no 23 has the Solo "Raid41.pdf" sketch for a single handed expedition boat, the main subject of this thread.

S.E.B. would be great for:

Pottering around the salt marshes and the Solent on any day I am free. Her greater length allowing much more ground to be covered than my present Scow.

Club racing on Sundays

Joining in the the local Dinghy Cruising Association meets

Weekend "Raids" a sort of informal competitive dinghy cruising. Friday night Keyhaven to Newtown, Saturday Newtown to Bealieu, Sunday Bealieu back to Keyhaven. The main raids are very expensive and time consuming, these would be self managed low cost mini raids.

Perhaps as confidence grew even a S.E.B. main event a Round the Island Race, with two stopovers on the way round. 1800 yachts have just gone round last weekend, that's 13,000 people.

Brian.

**EJK** · 8th July 2008, 03:01 PM

It's been fantastic to see the solo expedition sailboat gel over the last month. It seems that a number of us share the same vision for this boat.

Michael, I have to ask, will you be willing to pull together plans for release?

We launched our OZ PDRacer this last weekend (Michael's plans were outstanding - essentially a home course on boatbuilding). My son was all grins as we sailed around the lake. We will prepare for painting this weekend and make a proper poly lug sail. It's now time to begin building a solo expedition sailboat!

Erik

**JDH** · 8th July 2008, 04:10 PM

MIK

Can I add my name to the huge

list of people requesting plans for the Solo.

All the components are now built for my OzPDR - 3D is a bucket of gop away so I will need something else to do.

Cheers
JDH

**Boatmik** · 8th July 2008, 04:14 PM

Howdy Erik,

Glad you and the boy are pretty happy about the boat!

Congratulations on the launch. Do you have any pics?

Best wishes
Michael!

**keyhavenpotter** · 8th July 2008, 04:45 PM

Please also add my name to the list for the S.E.B. plans if you decide to go ahead. Brian

**Dyf Nurgler** · 8th July 2008, 09:19 PM

MIK,

could that device elegantly called grout be used to turn two PDR's into a slightly faster option for a raid boat? It rates a mention on the PDR forum and in a Bolger book but I'm not sure how it attaches or indeed if that is the best way to make it work? Could be the way to go if a PDR is to slow on it's own. How many could you string together anyway?
I'm thinking of getting the PDR plans eventually, no excuse really considering the cost.

Dyf

**Boatmik** · 8th July 2008, 10:42 PM

Howdy Dyf,

There are huge loads imposed when you try to join bits of boats - particularly if you cannot organise really effective means to do so.

I've been a little bit involved with a couple of Bolger's 31ft folding schooners and the loads that you have to keep the boat together against are huge.

There were a couple of stretched PDR type boats in the Texas200 - a longer boat with less curve to the bottom will be considerably faster.

So I think that is the best way to go.

Best wishes
MIK

**Dyf Nurgler** · 10th July 2008, 07:20 PM

Thanks for the prompt reply Mik. Saves me thinking about it anymore. You could argue that it might be okay for recreational type sailing but your point that a boat should sail well whatever you are using it for is much more valid, not only from a safety point of view but the enjoyment that sailing a boat is supposed to convey.
Since I am just starting on the garboards of my Tirrik I suppose I should post some pictures then in another thread?

**b.o.a.t.** · 10th July 2008, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by dyf nurgler

since i am just starting on the garboards of my tirrik i suppose i should post some pictures then in another thread?

yes !!!!

**b.o.a.t.** · 11th July 2008, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

Please also add my name to the list for the S.E.B. plans if you decide to go ahead. Brian

Scrolling through the above posts, I reckon I must be in line for plan set #5...
cheers
AJ

**Boatmik** · 29th July 2008, 05:50 PM

Not so fast guys ...

I have started looking at it with the plan of scavenging most of the construction details and methods from the PDRacer plan to keep the workload down.

That way I can just do a few drawings ... offer them cheaply ... those needing the methods can download the PDRacer plan as well.

Centreboard and rudder will be from the PDR ... probably the mast technology.

But so many iterations just trying to get the basic things right.

I am up to version K ... so that is ... um ... version 11.

A lot of it is just the normal detail stuff ... getting the displacement right ... making sure the sides will fit on the ply sheets (not too big, not too small).

Then the sides were too tall and made the boat more bulky so it would blow around too much when rowing.

Found the sloped transom of the original made the transom wider at the bottom rather than the top.

Tried to fix that by raking the sides the right amount.

Decided that made the building too complicated ... so maybe I've gone back to the vertical transom or maybe I will reverse it so it slopes forward at the top (is it worth the complication).

This made the deck perimeter unfair so it was an ugly shape.

Sigh.

This is not a complaint by the way ... but Par for the course.

I want it to be good

By the way the PDRacer at the bottom left gives an idea of the scale. We are going for that type of stability, but the longer hull will give a lot more speed.

MIK

**b.o.a.t.** · 29th July 2008, 11:48 PM

Sounding good Michael.

**Boatmik** · 30th July 2008, 01:41 PM

Good for everything but the hair on my head!

) Wouldn't change it for quids!

MIK

**keyhavenpotter** · 31st July 2008, 08:05 PM

Michael, thanks for the update.

Some links connected with this thread

Two wheels on my wagon.

here is Matt Layden

http://www.watertribe.com/ChallengeV...ngeViewer.aspx

click on "Chief - Wizard arriving at St. George, portage, tire problems on the road"

This shows Matt arriving after a 90 miles skull and setting off on a 40 miles road walk with Enigma on two small wheels - could be good with a similar arrangment for Solo.

Some of the other "Wizard" clips ( Matt's nickname on Watertribe) are good too. Select the 2006 event to see the list.

Strengthening sailing canoe hull for Florida type coral reefs

Hugh Horton has been developing his sailing canoes for many years. His latest "Bufflehead" is built of 4mm ply with a carbon lower hull exterior and a kevlar interior puncture resistant layer. He uses his boats in a very similar fashion to that planned for Solo.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27848841@N05/2719440352/

This might be over the top for Solo but might be an approach for relevant areas? Hugh can only obtain 3 ply 4mm, here in the UK Robbins do a really nice 5 ply
4mm Super Elite plywood.

Brian.

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