Thread: Solo "Expedition" Sailboat

Hi MIK

there is currently some early discussion of RAID41 on the yahoo open boats group and the subject of dagger board / centreboard has come up again. The simplicity and clean cockpit is sort of winning at the moment.

There was a possibility of allowing for the builder to fit a centreboard if it was really wanted. Is that still an option - I did not want to say it was on the yahoo site if it would compromise the design in its latest form.

Or alternatively it could be something drawn up for a later version I guess.

Brian

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openboat/messages?o=1

think you have to join to see the messages though.

Yes, I have been on the Openboat boat group too. Having mused thoroughly over the daggerboard I am now firmly of the opinion that it is the best choice - I think this boat needs to be kept absolutely as light as possible. I really like the idea of such a potentially capable boat that can be cartopped.

With this in mind I will ask the question I just put up on the other group - should have asked it here anyway!

"Thinking about cartopping - I assume that the spars will be shorter than the
boat? If so will they have to be lashed on top or do you think there will be scope for poking them through an inspection hatch and keeping them actually within the hull?"

I am really looking forward to the build blog! Not as much as I am the sailing one though!

Regards,

Chris

Originally Posted by Boatmik

REPEAT OF PREVIOUS POINT - a good argument for bringing a leeboard inside the hull. A number of the US PDRacers have done just this .. and a couple using OZ PDR plans have moved the centrecase over so it is under the inside edge of the deck about 7inches inside the hull side. If someone wants to do this on the RAID/EXPEDITION41 then they can try of course. I think it will be OK .. but not as good as the centreboard.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

G'day Michael
Given the amount of water which is NOT in the lower lakes at the moment, it might be
worth the performance penalty of two shorter inboard leeboards to open up more
sailable water. This is, after all, a boat for poking around & exploring in, not just gobbling
up the miles ! Same applies to the channels north of the Port River, & probably
a host of other places around the world.
Depending upon how the centreboard case arranged at the moment, it might also
allow a slightly longer sleeping space for those of us who are 6'2"" or taller ?

Do you have any general arrangement sketches you can put on-line yet ?
cheers
AJ

Howdy ... I probably won't be drawing up a swinging centreboard version.

Here we talk about centreboards as a generic term which break down into
Daggerboards or Dagger Centreboards
Swinging Centreboards

Seems to me a Centre board is a board in the centre and should be contrasted with a lee board that is not.

OK ... maybe a nice point.

BUT the structure will allow for a swinging board to be fitted on the centreline quite easily - I will allow for it so people can fit one if they want. It won't be a part of the initial plans. At least the swinging board makes a lot more sense for this boat than with the PDRacer - no space because the centreboard is already a long way back and long so a case would almost go to the transom, or GIS - where it would divide up the already small space in the main working area of the boat (the mid seat and just behind it)

BACK to the Expedition/RAID

One problem is that the rowing function forces the self draining floor to be quite low in the boat. I have angled if aft a little to self drain through the transom (and through the centrecase of course) but the transom will be solid ply to stop water coming in (with some scuppers). I am a little worried that if the centreboard slot swings too far back then water might come in a bit. But some windsurfers and racing dinghies use sailcloth covers over the tops of their swinging centreboards.

We will see ... the only option is to increase the freeboard .. but that increases weight and makes the boat harder for one person to manage in shallows or on land and will make it blow round while rowing.

We will see.

Best wishes
Michael
(The boat has been drawn with a daggerboard, but the subcockpit structure has been designed to deal with a swinging centreboard with some changes. Still ruins the cockpit in my opinion and may splash water ... but this can be prevented by a sock that covers the board and slot fastened down to cockpit floor. Houndtooth Check, anyone?)

Originally Posted by Clarkey

Yes, I have been on the Openboat boat group too. Having mused thoroughly over the daggerboard I am now firmly of the opinion that it is the best choice - I think this boat needs to be kept absolutely as light as possible. I really like the idea of such a potentially capable boat that can be cartopped.

With this in mind I will ask the question I just put up on the other group - should have asked it here anyway!

"Thinking about cartopping - I assume that the spars will be shorter than the
boat? If so will they have to be lashed on top or do you think there will be scope for poking them through an inspection hatch and keeping them actually within the hull?"

Regards,
Chris

Excellent point Clarkey. Don't know if it will be quite feasible but I will keep it in mind over the next week. The front end is OK - a hole needs to go there anyhow ... the back end where the stick needs to be fed in might be a bit tricky with the transom and the mizzen mast partner

Will see
MIK

The Caledonia Raid has a long section of canal where sailing is not allowed, so good rig stowage when rowing a Raid section might be really helpful.

Here are some pics from Caledonia 2008 to give a flavour

http://albums.phanfare.com/2963156/2...ageID=28585648

Brian

Yes, it would be nice to be able to strike the rig and stow it for a long row, especially against a strong headwind. That might prove mighty tricky though, the mainmast would have to stow pretty much on the centerline.

What will happen at the transom? Presumably there will need to be some holes or transom flaps in it so that the boat can self-drain quickly enough? Maybe the spars could be poked through them in order to wiggle them into place?

Even though I would like to row standing up most of the time (blah blah, drone, venetian rowing - my pet subject) I would prefer to sit down and pull in the usual way in adverse conditions. What is proposed for a rowing seat? I would REALLY like to avoid a fixed thwart , there wouldn't be much space under it and it would ruin the boat for sleeping. I can envisage a small seat about 150mm off the cockpit floor attached to a plug which drops into the daggerboard slot and stabilised with a couple of short legs or side-pieces. Maybe this could be dropped into place over the stowed spars?

Chris

Chris, could you tell us more about how the standing up rowing might work on RAID41. I will probably only row away from the beach when setting off early on the tide when Keyhaven is very shallow and anywhere there is some water there are moorings, so rowing out standing up, facing where I am going and not hitting moored boats would be a good alternative. Brian

Hi Brian,

If you just want to get off the beach into clear water then you don't need anything too special, just a pair of oars and probably a set of extended height rowlocks. Relatively short oars should be fine - you don't really want overlap on the handles when threading your way through boats. I will try and google for some images of Maine 'peapods' which were often rowed like this for short distances.

I remember an old edition of 'Watercraft' which had a picture of a German raid boat. The crew sat forward and rowed in the conventional way while the helm stood aft and rowed facing forward. They said that this worked really well because they could chat to each to each other and the crew could concentrate on providing power knowing that the helm could see where they were going. As I recall the rowlocks for the helm were about 20cm taller than those of the crew but this would obviously depend on the boat.

Standing is no problem in relatively calm conditions but with a flat bottomed boat the motion can be really quick in disturbed chop - hence my desire for a sitting down option too.

The two Venetian styles are a bit more involved and are really aimed at rowing long distances or in narrow canals - you don't really want to bother with crossed oars held in the 'wrong' hands when you are trying to weave between other boats!

Hope this helps,

Chris

Something like these, but hopefully at a more affordable price , the picture gives the idea

http://www.duck-trap.com/hardware.html

Brian

Yes, those are exactly what I had in mind!

My only concern would be the narrow beam of RAID41 which may make the gearing a bit heavy. I think for just getting the boat off the beach I would go for really short oars and accept that rowing any distance would be a chore. If you wanted I guess you could mount the rowlocks off the vertical and splay them out. That would let you use longer blades but would make coming alongside other boats, walls etc. a bit of a pain.

I can't wait to see how this boat looks in the flesh!

Chris

Blimey! You are right, I just saw the price!

Gondolas have intricately carved hardwood rowlocks ('forcole') that cost a small fortune but more modest boats often make do with a short plank stuck vertically through a slot in the sidedeck. A 'U' is cut in the top to take the oar and reinforced to stop the wood splitting. I guess the modern approach would be to wrap some glass tape around the base of the 'U' and epoxy it in place. The plank would go down to a socket on the chine log and is usually held in place by a wooden wedge or two. Job done, just pull them out for sailing.

Chris

Howdy ...

look how the shoulders are in line with the oar handle in this gun racing team.

Another solution would be to mount an oarlock on the transom and scull over the stern.

Ron