Thread: Solo "Expedition" Sailboat

JDH,

The Hobie Mirage drive uses an opening that is both wider and shorter than a daggerboard. Also, a Mirage drive costs around $500 here in the USA and I am sure that you could get a good set of oars for less or make them for a great deal less.

Ron

The amazing thing about these boats in MIK's post 89 (it is a Caorlina) is that the working crew was 2, rowing and sometimes sailing about 15 tons of stone from Istria to Venice. They are lovely to row with 6 and can carry a great deal of picnic! I have done a couple of day trips in one, covering about 25-30km is quite relaxed and pleasant. Would be tricky to find space for the 4m oars on RAID41 though!

What I had in mind originally for 'my' RAID41 was the style exhibited by the bloke at the bottom of the page in this link:

http://www.campiello-venise.com/dossier/vogaveneta.htm

For short stretches though you could get away with short, non overlapping oars - 7' or maybe even 6'. I like sculling over the stern but I think you get more control with two blades.

Chris

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Howdy ...

look how the shoulders are in line with the oar handle in this gun racing team.

Hi Micheal,

Just had a quick read of you message and thought you might like to have a look at a Hrtley Ts 16. which by all reports is easy toi build and a lot of fun for the hole family.
it sleeps 4 overnight ,but may be a bit hard to row.

Howdy Portercable and WELCOME!!!

Have a huge respect for the Hartley ... but doesn't answer the question.

Also compared to the types of boats we are talking about here it is much harder to build and the rig is expensive.

It has BRILLIANT performance if sailed hard ... but it is way too much boat for this requirement ... for one person to handle easily. The boat that we are talking about might well be roofrackable.

There is a great thread on this forum about the Hartley ... have you seen it?
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=80599

Best wishes
Michael

Hobie Mirage drives ...

I read on the net a report (duckworks?) about a hobie drive fitted to a Mill Creek canoe which has a slightly veed bottom. The drive's "sails" would slap the bottom of the boat.

The flat of the Raid boat bottom might make this even more of a problem.

I am interested in the ease and effectiveness of this drive and the $500 doesn't really seem that steep for a pretty groovy mechanism.

The website for a drive shows some videos of it towing a regular kayak backwards. Francis Herreshoff has the story of a young bow swimming and towing his brother backwards in a rowboat. But the rowboat we know is waaaay more efficient than a swimmer.

Are there any videos showing a Hobie drive vs a real rowboat or a real kayak in a decent length race? Be interesting to see! I think it would do pretty well at cruising type speeds for less experienced paddlers/rowers and may be adaptable to types of boats where it is hard to fit oars or use paddles effectively, such as ones with wide side decks or coamings (Welsford Whaler comes to mind).

But head to head ... I suspect the lack of evidence to the contrary indicates the current version doesn't have the legs of a proper rowboat or kayak. I would be excited to be found to be wrong!!!

MIK

"I read on the net a report (duckworks?) about a hobie drive fitted to a Mill Creek canoe which has a slightly veed bottom. The drive's "sails" would slap the bottom of the boat."

This sometimes happens even with Hobie craft, depends on how hard you are pushing things.

"The flat of the Raid boat bottom might make this even more of a problem."

I presently use an i12 Hobie inflatable, which has a virtually flat bottom so I think that would not be a real problem on the RAID 41. I find I can use the drive for long periods of time and only rarely use the paddle. In low/light wind conditions the drive is great for "motoring" through tacks. The drive creates very little noise and no splash so if wonderful for watching wildlife.

"I am interested in the ease and effectiveness of this drive and the $500 doesn't really seem that steep for a pretty groovy mechanism."

As Ron says the drive needs a slot wider and shorter than the dagger board but with the right structure as part of the proposed false floor, you could consider a cassette for board or drive alternatively. Or could there be provision for a drive behind the dagger board ?

"The website for a drive shows some videos of it towing a regular kayak backwards. Francis Herreshoff has the story of a young boy swimming and towing his brother backwards in a rowboat. But the rowboat we know is waaaay more efficient than a swimmer."

This would be an interesting test to try - two RAID's one with drive and one with oars !

"Are there any videos showing a Hobie drive vs a real rowboat or a real kayak in a decent length race? Be interesting to see! I think it would do pretty well at cruising type speeds for less experienced paddlers/rowers and may be adaptable to types of boats where it is hard to fit oars or use paddles effectively, such as ones with wide side decks or coamings (Welsford Whaler comes to mind)."

There is only the promo video on the Hobie site that I know of.

"But head to head ... I suspect the lack of evidence to the contrary indicates the current version doesn't have the legs of a proper rowboat or kayak. I would be excited to be found to be wrong!!!"

I use the turbo fins on my drive, now as for the legs, well that is up to the sixty plus year old motor !! Give me a Mirage drive any day over a paddle - have not rowed a decent row boat for many years, oars may still have the edge, until proven otherwise.

Just need to build me a RAID 41 and try it out.

JDH

Will we ever be so organised?



managed it!

Brian

MIK,

I have used mirage drives in two different Hobie kayaks and also in a Hobie Adventure Island trimaran. In the kayaks the drive would take me further faster and with less effort than the paddle. I always carried the paddle just in case I had a drive failure and almost needed it the time I bent the rod that supports the fin by running aground on an oyster rock.
On the AI there is not enough room to swing a double paddle, so I use a short single paddle where it is either impossible or impractical to use the drive or the sail. I sometimes wonder how much the AI would sail without the added drag of the drive.

Ron

Brian,

Where is that picture from? I think I recognize the boat. It looks like the Caledonia Yawl that has been to our Mid Atlantic Small Craft Festival for the last several years. I don't recall ever having seen it with that cockpit tent though. It looks like a conventional tent with the bottom cut out and adapted as a cockpit, tent with the fly pitched separately for greater separation.

Ron

Hi Ron

I think you are right about the boat. My son actually sent me the picture just to illustrate how organised one could be when dinghy cruising. With Raid41 having a front cuddy it might be possible to have a neat cover which fastens to the back edge of the cuddy and becomes a very quick to erect small tent.

I don't know quite what to think about the cuddy hinted at on MIK's drawing.

First off I think it looks cool and contributes to the 'raid boat' look. I guess having that extra buoyancy high up could come in handy when things turn upside down. It also looks like it could function as a bit of a cutwater and help prevent water flooding into the cockpit from the foredeck.

On the other hand might it complicate access to (well, leaning across) the foredeck and would it be vulnerable when stepping the mast? It also means that you would have to cartop the boat right-side-up - but that is probably the case anyway, I wouldn't fancy turning the hull every time.

Brian, I would be interested to hear some more of your ideas about tents and accommodation - it sounds like you have devoted quite a bit of thought to it.

Chris

This Enigma design by Matt Laydon has a very neat cockpit cover.



Might not have enough room below the cover with RAID41 having lower sides, but something along these lines would be practical, quick to rig and be much nicer than an old fashioned flappy tent.

Brian

Yes, I always thought that was a really neat solution on Enigma.

I always imagined that it would be necessary to sit out on RAID41 to make decent progress. Does anyone think it would also be possible to sit on the floor behind a dodger and sail it from 'inside', kind of treat it like a fat sailing kayak? Maybe this is when the water ballast would come in handy? It would be slow but comfy and protected.

Chris

Originally Posted by sailman58

MIK,

I have used mirage drives in two different Hobie kayaks and also in a Hobie Adventure Island trimaran. In the kayaks the drive would take me further faster and with less effort than the paddle. I always carried the paddle just in case I had a drive failure and almost needed it the time I bent the rod that supports the fin by running aground on an oyster rock.
Ron

Howdy Ron,

Thanks hugely for the feedback! Nice to have someone who has actually used the things. Anyone who has used it enough to have got up and personal with oysters gives me the feeling of REAL USE rather than a five minute run around the bay!

Good advice about carrying a paddle on longer trips.

Actually I have a bung back and neck ... and it sounds ideal! And I can read the newspaper if I get bored!

MIK