Thread: Solo "Expedition" Sailboat

Something like Bolger's "Windsprint" or "June Bug" (plans in "Build the new instant boats") come most immediately to mind. But I've not heard anything about their sailing ability. Might be dogs to sail.

The centreboard of most sharpie skiffs is the killer. Need that space to sleep in. Ask MIK nicely & he might draw a version of GIS with off-set dagger-board/s & removeable thwart. 2 boards might allow them to be shorter too.

Go for a more complex construction & the possibilities expand exponentially. Welsford's "Walkabout" fits almost exactly your last 3 requirements, but not the first!!

Matt Laydon's "Paradox" or "Enigma" are another, totally different, way of tackling it, sculling with a yuloh rather than rowing.

cheers
AJ

Howdy - good suggestions AJ,

I am rather fond of June Bug but a Yawl/Ketch rig would make her into more of an expedition boat.

I was put in mind of Bolger's Jinni, but I think it would end up too heavy and bulky - a powerful sailing machine.

I would build in big buoyancy tanks front and back - maybe so she looks a bit like Beth. If you plan the supporting framework properly you could do the deck and all internals of 4mm ply to keep the weight down. But it does mean a lot of volume to bail out if you capsize.

So it would then make sense for the middle part to have a raised floor and be self draining. Not so convenient for rowing - unless you raise the rowlocks or raise the sheer a couple of inches.

People always put too much weight into expedition boats - particularly in terms of fibreglass - which adds heaps of weight. I'd use one layer of the lightest woven glass I can get over the bottom panel and an inch onto the side panels - and only if there were lots of rocks - if there are sandy or grassy or leafy spots - you won't need it.

There are other suitable boats possibly - but what I would avoid is weight (you have to handle the boat on the land by yourself too) and beam (which relates to weight and seakindliness) - this makes it a lot harder to handle a boat on shore as well.

Use the rudder and centreboard design from the PDR to make new foils for whatever you do and set up the rig using the info I give on my site for setting up trad rigs for performance - am sure June bug will go quite OK - might be tempted to pull her transom in a little bit narrower to improve sailing when heeled. Any boat with a jib will be more expensive and more difficult to sail singlehanded - I've done a lot of it and jibless two masted boats are a revelation (I've also done a lot of that).

I hope this gives some hints. Please feel free to keep discussing here.

I love Matt Leyden's boats, but I suspect that they are an amount of building commensurate with their huge capability.

MIK

G'day MIK
having voiced it in passing, now I'm asking - what about a "GIS Cruiser" ?
The hull is a proven performer - re-jig the interior as a performance touring boat for sheltered waters.
A hybrid of GIS/Beth/PDR/other for rivers, lakes & fjords.

Dual off-set dagger boards to give clear sleeping & lounging space down the middle, like Windsprint. Maybe incorporated into extended side buoyancy / stowage compartments to brace the sides & bottom under PDR-style decks instead of the spaced inwales. Reinforce the bottom between the boards to compensate for loss of closed box rigidity ?

One or two masts option. Two masts using Beth's steering set-up.

Moveable rowing thwart/s a la Bolger Sweet Pea, or just loose seats. I used a cut-down Coke crate for a long time - very stable. Padded stove box also an option. Or yuloh.

Adds complication & weight, & cuts performance, yes.
It should still be a faster & simpler boat than most 'cruising' boats.

Is there another boat like that on the market?
Would there even be a market for such a skiff cruiser ?
What is the bleedin' obvious that I have missed which makes this a silly idea?

cheers
AJ
(and yes, I have been thinking about this a while - since the moment I laid eyes on Midge's GIS)

That's the boat I'm looking for - A GIS Cruiser! I have the plywood. Just need the plans...

The stories from Texas200 PDRs were inspiring. However, that's a loooong way to go in an 8'x4' box, no matter what kind of foils or sail rigs you use.

EJK

Yes a longer boat will average considerably faster speeds and also be able to deal well with a variety of conditions.

Best wishes
Michael

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Yes a longer boat will average considerably faster speeds and also be able to deal well with a variety of conditions.
Best wishes
Michael

Avoiding the question Michael !!

A GIS Cruiser as described departs from the original concept of the lightest fastest simplest 15-footer that it is. Adds $$ & Kg.

Would it work ? Would you do it ?

cheers
AJ

Actually I would be more keen to do a square boat - a bit like Junebug and a bit like Beth in terms of decking.and keep the volume of the hull right down.

Off centre centreboard. Ketch rig.

Then the PDRacer plans could almost work in terms of construction - for a box boat. Chines are square.

In other words I think the Goat is a bad place to start. The PDRs make more sense I think.

Particularly if anyone ever wants to see some plans. Squareboats are easier to design and something that was proven might have more market appeal particularly if it looked really simple.

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Actually I would be more keen to do a square boat - a bit like Junebug and a bit like Beth in terms of decking.and keep the volume of the hull right down.

The bit about square chines I think I understand. At least from a simplicity angle.

Am a bit lost on keeping the volume down other than to contain weight & cost. Surely a larger boat would be drier & less twitchy at rest? & if engineered with the economy of your other designs, not greatly penalised in weight ? If 'expeditioning', it is likely a fair bit of gear will be loaded aboard, so some volume required. Also ease of handling on land would be somewhat sacrificed anyway due to stores. Overcome with some sort of trolley, or a pair of wheels which slip into fixed axle sockets like what Matt L did to portage Enigma across Florida in '07.
cheers
AJ

I think a GIS-cruiser would have wide appeal...I'd look at it. A little more length and capacity, a small mizzen to make it into a yawl, and stowage places (for bags) would be the only key things. With the RAID thing catching on here in the States, Wooden Boats Small Reach Regatta particularly, I would love to see some GIS-type boats in the mix. The nice thing about the GIS for such a purpose is that it would be super light for beaching. There is my plug for a new GIS cruiser. Michael, don't you have a raid boat in the works. Would love to heare more about it.

Back to this post...I can't stress enough the importance of having a mizzen for cruising or for making day sails more comfortable and safe for that matter. Being able to heave to or lie head to wind under mizzen while reefing or dealing with gear stowage or attending to an emergency is vital. Switching between oar and sail with the mizzen up makes the operation easier, more enjoyable, and safer. I don't plan to have a sail-and-oar boat without a mizzen. I'd push for a yawl over a ketch only because the mizzen in a yawl is aft and out of the way. However, a ketch may be better for dividing the sail area up into smaller pieces, which has a lot of advantages too.

Cheers,
Clint

Howdy All,

The problem is ... that everyone wants more and more in their boats - so boats get bigger and more complex - this is starting to happen in the faster RAID boats.

If you want to win a Raid monohull division a stretched ketch rigged GIS would be a good choice. It would take a lot of attention to sail it hard and the result would be rewarding in those terms. (nov 2008 - I would revise this now having looked more closely. RAID boats are turning into big expensive Skiff type boats with lots of sail and crew ... I don't think the stretched Goat could compete against such big powerful machines)

BUT - how many people are wanting to win vs wanting to participate?

In that case the market is actually in something that has good average speeds without taking too much concentration to sail.

I have learned a lot from watching the PDRs do the Texas200.

The only real problem to the boats was that while they certainly seemed seaworthy enough and tough enough, the lower average speed of the boat means a lot of hours of sailing and fatigue of the crew. The main flaw of two of the boats were that they couldn't get to windward efficiently - the Texas200 is a predominantly downwind and reaching race.

Things that are fairly essential on the list.

• Somewhere to sit out of the water
• Not too much bailing after a capsize or completely self draining
• Easily reefed
• Light enough to pull back into the water if you go aground
• Good windward performance with plenty of water and reasonable with restricted water depth.
• The biggest single problem is fatigue - so to make sure that the boat makes good progress without excessive amounts of attention.

Best wishes
MIK

MIK,

You make great points. I fully agree that there will always be a push towards bigger more complex boats. However, the Texas200 also showed that there are a lot of people looking to simply participate. The growing interest in PDRs reinforces this.

I also feel that there a more than a couple of people looking for a boat that is simple to build, with good lines, that meets your essentials list. The boat we seem to be looking for doesn't seem to be out there and I am not creative or skilled enough to begin modifying an existing plan. I pulled the following post from Piccum off of the Texas200 forum:

"I started thinking about the ideal characteristics of a Gulf coast beach cruiser during the Texas 200. Up to Aransas bay, my Piccup pram did a great job of handling following waves and running downwind. In the bay I was reminded of the limitations of a pram bow when beating into large waves. I really liked the light weight of my boat, when moving it around in the shallows and pulling up on the beaches.

Chuck-- what about the idea of a design competition for a G.C. beach cruiser based on the practical information gained from the Texas 200?"

There are a large number plans for bigger, more complex boats. I don't have the interest, the skills nor the time necessary to build one well. I want to participate (of course I want to sail fast while looking good too)!

EJK

Originally Posted by EJK

MIK,

You make great points. I fully agree that there will always be a push towards bigger more complex boats. However, the Texas200 also showed that there are a lot of people looking to simply participate. The growing interest in PDRs reinforces this. I pulled the following post from Piccum off of the Texas200 forum:

"I started thinking about the ideal characteristics of a Gulf coast beach cruiser during the Texas 200. Up to Aransas bay, my Piccup pram did a great job of handling following waves and running downwind. In the bay I was reminded of the limitations of a pram bow when beating into large waves. I really liked the light weight of my boat, when moving it around in the shallows and pulling up on the beaches.

Chuck-- what about the idea of a design competition for a G.C. beach cruiser based on the practical information gained from the Texas 200?"

There are a large number plans for bigger, more complex boats. I don't have the interest, the skills nor the time necessary to build one well. I want to participate (of course I want to sail fast while looking good too)!

EJK

Yep - that is why I am drawn to a square boat.

But it is easy enough to find some form that makes it look good. After all we have BETH as an example of what can be done with a simple hull form.



Luckily I believe that the things that make a boat look good are independent of the things that make it go fast. It makes it easy to do both!

MIK (with hubris)

The Small Reach here in Maine isn't really a raid but attracts the raid type sail-and-oar boats. Most people that go as crew want to either build one for the following year or commission one if they could afford it...when approached about this I have given my price and they have said "oh that is a lot of money....what is out there that I could build by next summer's event"? I usually scratch my head. They could do a GIS in that time!

I think a mizzen has to be on the essentials list.

I am looking at building a dory after the GIS and using the GIS rig in the dory...to save time and money and I'll draw a new interior for the dory that will include a mizzen and the new C/B location and side benches. I see the dory as another example of simplicity. Still a lot of work though!

Cheers,
Clint

Originally Posted by Boatmik

But it is easy enough to find some form that makes it look good. After all we have BETH as an example of what can be done with a simple hull form.



Luckily I believe that the things that make a boat look good are independent of the things that make it go fast. It makes it easy to do both!

Yes! Beth is probably simplest to build fine boat and ...prettiest box in the Universe! (and this photo is beautiful indeed)
Tell to the truth: She is probably suitable as "spartan" weekend solo cruiser for well experienced sailor. She is my favourite small boat and I intend to use her for that purpose
(on the not defined future...)