Thread: Son of Goat project

Howdy,

I'm writing this while I am thinking it through. I'm not really suggesting any specific advice for anyone here - just some thoughts on some things I have observed on the human nature front.

It can be quite an interesting one at times at boat shows when talking to people on one of the stands.

Most partners are at least a bit supportive, some downright excited (there are a number of photos of partners planing spars or painting in my collections) but you get the occasional one who stands about two metres away with arms crossed.

I have a very standard approach if someone is thinking about building a boat. Basically it always splits between getting a boat on the water quickly (plywood sheet) or a little less quick but focussed on an interest in skills or classic boats (glued lap, cedar strip - though glued lap is faster than stripping).

So I talk about that and then give stitch and glue construction as an example of fast building. Most men who first hear of it can't get their head around stitch and glue because they tend to think of boats being built over some sort of strongback or being like a house or a box.

So I look at the partner with her arms crossed and say "it is just like making clothes - you cut everything out of flat pieces with curved edges and then when you sew it together it has a 3D shape". This usually completely confuses the chap, but before he can ask a question his wife has taken two paces forward and is trying to explain it to him with some enthusiasm.

Often something completely new can be confronting when you see it the first time - and more so if you kinda can't see the point. But when it starts to make sense in your own terms it starts to be interesting - that's the real human inquisitiveness coming out.

I might not be hugely interested in quiltmaking but if you dig a bit it becomes rather interesting. A friend's wife is a serious quilter - this is a couple of panesl of one of the larger works she and group of five did as public art (as a paying job - from design to making. It is at a repatriation/aged care facility. That's Wendy in her CFS (country fire service) garb.



I asked her about these in her workroom.



They are postcard sized and are made by quilters to give to other quilters - sort of a mix of business card and postcard - a little show of what you are about as a person.

Rather nice.

Not always, but sometimes you can find some aspect where the other person can find some element of interest.Like John Goodman's or AlexNs kids being interested in the colour, name and even a graphic design to decorate the hull. Though all of John's family was pretty committed to the project, it shows how some particular aspect can become interesting if they are able to make real decisions.

Best wishes
Michael

Originally Posted by Boatmik

...sometimes you can find some aspect where the other person can find some element of interest....

This is sage advice. It may be like searching for the Holy Grail, but then the search is really the more interesting part...

this rig might suit SOG



The Dhow Worlds (about 60 boats) are about to start in Dubai.

Brian

You'd need all those crew just to tack the thing. They do look a magnificent sight when you see them in a fleet. I saw a pic of a fleet of them once, all close hauled, so I'll see if I can find it.

It's just a lug rig with the yard at the top of the mast and the light wind main bent on. Easy to do!

Brian

Originally Posted by Boatmik

...The sail is not the PDR one as I had hoped to use the two sails directly, but is a bit higher aspect. The PDR sails just didn't look right as the aspect ratio was too low. But can use the mast, yard, centreboard, rudder and rudderbox.

Now that I've re-read this thread, I see the answer to a recent question I posed about compatibility with OzRacers. I think this is a brilliant plan. By making use of the OzRacer (nee OzPDR) hard lumber bits, there is a nice path of progression from small entry level to small moderately serious boat. From there one might want to "move up" to a Beth for higher performance (I'm speculating) or to a GIS for greater capacity/utility based on one's experience with SOG.

The fact that the OzRacer sail it self is not carried over is no issue; it should be a low cost affair anyway and should probably not survive from one project to another anyway. But the time and materials invested in mast, yards, foils and rudder box are significant enough to warrant a place to go once the low budget tongue-in-cheek hull and sails are consumed with use.

Also, I wanted to bump the drawing to another page of this thread because it keeps getting buried the more we chat about this great concept.

Originally Posted by keyhavenpotter

this rig might suit SOG



The Dhow Worlds (about 60 boats) are about to start in Dubai.

Brian

We will have to ship Bruce's goat over there so he can drive and I can take photos.

I do have some pics of racing dhows on this forum also a video of one ripping a large chunk of hull out while screaming along. Nobody can accuse this rig of light sheeting loads!

MIK.

Originally Posted by davlafont

But the time and materials invested in mast, yards, foils and rudder box are significant enough to warrant a place to go once the low budget tongue-in-cheek hull and sails are consumed with use.

Totally agree Dave

By having something to 'trade-up' to, that investment is even more worthwhile.

I guess it would also be worthwhile investing in a more serious sail for this boat, which is not warranted/allowed on the OzRacer.

btw.. when are the OzRacer Nationals?

Duncan.

That Dhow picture reminded me that in the summer I had taken some pictures of the local sail and oar boats on Lake Geneva. I had never seen a lug rig quite like it - sort of half way between between a Dhow rig and our lug rigs. The large sailing ships on the lake are in fact just like a Dhow so perhaps there is a connection.



the left hand dark green boat is a local fishing boat. Long and slim, they use outboards now to fish for the local speciality, perch. The right hand boat still sails, but note how far the rig sticks out in front of the boat.

here she is sailing.



but note how light the wind is. Then they did this.... I have never seen a sail on oar boat with the sail furled at the top of the mast!



Made my day! Always something new. Note how the rope from the bottom of the mast goes to the end of the yard sticking out in front of the boat. It's the downhaul, and that's how they manage to have such a vertical yard. A rig I have never seen anywhere before.

Brian

Originally Posted by Boatmik

I asked her about these in her workroom.

Really fine!

Something as like as my wife's artwork:




***
Dhows???
They are specific artefacts too!!! I like them!

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Then they started buying magazines for kit planes and hang-gliders and talking about that instead of sailing.

Their partner then suggested 'what ever happened to the boats ... boats make a lot of sense"

And to extend this to the next stage, If you're building a plane (as I am) can I suggest:

1. Buying lots of books about aeronautical engineering,
2. Staring at sketches and equations into the wee hours, and
3. Saying you're working on your own design

...because suddenly buying plans or a kit makes an amazing amount of sense .

Haha - well done Robin!

So are you building a kit or your own design? And what. Even if it is not wood we can have a little mention of it here.
________________________________

Duncan - that is quite a good point!

One problem is the boats are so strung out geographically. Also Peter has sold his two to a school and they have built a third. The bright orange on is in Queensland too...

I will be up in a couple of weeks ...

(Qld might be a bit distracted at the moment though)

MIK

Hi MIK,
Has there been any thought into the interior layout of the SoG?

I'm starting to look for my next project and the SoG is a definite contender. Personally I'd like to see long side air tanks similar to a PDR mkIII. Or like Cherubs used to have before they went false floor.

As functional as the existing GIS layout is, it doesn't look like its built for comfort when hiking with narrow gunwhales.

Any news on when the plans are likely to be released?

Tim

Howdy Tim,

Sorry, no deadlines. Still bubbling away on other projects on the marketing side - more critical to survival at this point.

The goat gunwale is not uncomfortable - it has an overall width of about 76mm.

A couple of sailors with more tender bottoms have put temporary pads on for longer sails.

The main problem is that side decks add a fair bit of weight and, more importantly, building complication and materials.

The Goat is such a study in minimalism - not many near 16ft boats with this beam and freeboard with a hullweight 10lbs lighter than a Laser.

Particularly when you consider I haven't done anything tricky with the ply thicknesses - it is all 6mm (1/4") whereas Cherubs and NS14s use(d) 4mm (3/16") and don't (didn't) get those sorts of weights per unit length when they were wooden.

This was my last study



I might do something like a side deck racing dinghy at some stage, but the SoG won't be the boat - keep the concept clean. This is important aesthetically and also to find a place in the marketplace that is different from everything else.

Best wishes
MIK

http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/sets/