Thread: Son of Goat project

Able to carry a small motor: I don't think this would necessarily be a requirement.

I am pretty sure that MIK will take care that the SoG hull will be very low drag under sail and will therefore also row quite well (as is the case with the GIS).

A bow sprit and asymetric would overly complicate the boat, I think. And make it a lot more expensive as well. Just a balanced lug rig or standing lug with boom would be nice in my opinion.

I am very curious what this design will look like when MIK is finished with it.

Best regards, Joost

Having not yet completed my goat, I cant say that i have done any camp cruising. However, by this spring I hope to be able to tell you that she is a great camp cruiser. My plan is to have removable sleeping boards between the center thwart and rear seat tank this way there are minimal mods to the design. I figure a pair at about 18" each, one on either side of the center case will be fine for 1 or 2 people. I am going to make a boom tent, most likely out of polyethylene tarp and bug netting that will attach to snaps screwed every 6 inches or so, to the underside of the gunwale. There is a great deal of protected coastline (both the north and south shore of long island) very near me that I would love to be able to explore, but is officially off limits for camping. It is not, however, illegal to anchor in 2 to 3 feet of protected water between some sandbars in a bay, and pitch a boom tent. It'll be a while, but i'll post pics when i get there.
Cheers,
Al

Originally Posted by Joost

A bow sprit and asymetric would overly complicate the boat, I think. And make it a lot more expensive as well. Just a balanced lug rig or standing lug with boom would be nice in my opinion.

I am very curious what this design will look like when MIK is finished with it.

Best regards, Joost

It will be interesting, that's for sure. However, I'll have to disagree with you Joost. I've seen plenty of uncomplicated boats with bowsprits and jibs. Even 2 mast positions and a removable bowsprit could be made very simple with a little thought. Why not make it optional, so if it's a family boat and the crew will want to be involved a bit more in sailing the boat, they can decide to step the mast back, fix the sprit and raise the jib.

The jib can be fun for the crew or youngsters crewing. Our local lug rigged Scows race singlehanded without jib and two up with jib. Surprisingly even racing most of the time except for certain conditions which favour one or the other.

You can even use a spinnaker if the two of you weigh enough!



However they do use a stayed rig, which seems very unusual in the world of lug rigs but is completely normal around here. When using a jib the boom is restrained at the mast by a small loop of rope so that the jig does not catch on the front of the boom when tacking.

Only one mast position is used which is not really correct, but tipping the mast forward as far as possible keeps things pretty balanced.

Cannot imagine a bowsprit though, just something to get broken and it would lower the aspect of the jib anyway?

Sure MIK is taking no notice of our ramblings and keeping his ideas clear!

Brian

Yes, Joost it does really.

Iain Oughtred's 12' Shearwater has a lug only option and a gunter with jib option. The mast foot position is about 4" different for the two rigs, similar to a Mirror dinghy.

Scows never had jibs, but were stayed because their spars were short so that they all stowed inside the hull. They were used as sailing tenders to get out to the large yachts which could not get up Lymington River, so crews sailed out to the mouth of the River moorings and dropped the rig into the boat when left at the mooring.

When John developed the modern version he need a jib because the first order for 10 boats was from the Royal for children's training boats. One experienced club member helming and two kids up the front. The youth program has been running 25 years now, and on Wednesday afternoons the River is covered in Scows - it's a great sight seeing all those youngsters out sailing.

The first generations are now our current Olympic medal winners.

Seem to cope with one position somehow?

Brian

Sorry Brian,

I just deleted my post before yours as the last remark of my post related to Bruce's post regarding the postion of the mast. Bruce has meanhwhile fixed the error in his reasoning by correcting in his message the "step the mast forward" part to "step the mast back". Hence my comment seemed to be out of place as it challenged exactly this error. My apologies if it has confused anyone.

I should however not have deleted my remark that a lot of designers (most notably Iain Oughtred) design their boats with mulitple rigging options.

I think the Lymington scows get away with the second mast position as when the boom is moved aft (together with the centre of effort of the main) this move in centre of effort is compensated by the jib. Tilting of the mast would further finetune the balance I guess.

Best regards, Joost

Howdy

I must admit that I don't like sloop rigs much any more - the way that jib flops around a third of the time unless you have a whisker pole just looks wrong compared to a yawl where everything works without any blanketing at all (if you know the trick of sailing downwind)

Also all the complication you need to add to a jib to make sure it works really well on all points of sail - barber haulers and at least one track or a substitute method. Fundamentally it is not a very efficient sail and is made efficient by such adjustments.

Once there is a commitment to a certain level of cost jibs are quite powerful and nice on most points of sail, but I prefer not to make that commitment.

The staying, or rather, the feeding of staying loads into a hull without side decks can add a lot of complication beyond the simple measures for an unstayed mast.

Best wishes
Michael

Just noticed in the video in the sailing performance thread that the Flights are using a jib boom.

Hello,

I just noticed that this post got down to the second page. I cannot let that happen of course (just putting a tiny bit of pressure on MIK here ).

Best wishes, Joost

Well it worked Joost.

Nothing happening just yet - have been straightening out the PDR situation and have to get the MK3 PDR plans and cutting files sorted for a guy who wants to manufacture in Texas for distribution through the USA.

It is pretty exciting - so that is where my energy will be for the next few weeks - writing up the plans and helping him get things sorted out for production. He will also be doing the Quick Canoe kit. So it is a nice fit. He wants to focus on the low cost end. Will be interesting to see if he can get enough volume to cover the lower markups of these budget boats. Clint is getting computer cutting of the more elaborate Eureka and GIS organised.

So you can see where my head is at!

MIK

Found out today that the State of Texas, Parks and Wildlife Department require any sailboat larger than 14ft with or without a motor has to be registered with the state. That means an added expense for my Goat and hull numbers on the hull.

If son of a Goat is 14ft or under it would not need to be registered. That would be one small way son of a Goat could save some money for it's owners.

How is a boat this size registered/titled in other parts of the world?

Originally Posted by john goodman

Found out today that the State of Texas, Parks and Wildlife Department require any sailboat larger than 14ft with or without a motor has to be registered with the state. That means an added expense for my Goat and hull numbers on the hull.

If son of a Goat is 14ft or under it would not need to be registered. That would be one small way son of a Goat could save some money for it's owners.

How is a boat this size registered/titled in other parts of the world?

In Brazil, no registration if under 5m and no motor - one of the reasons for my choosing the 4.7m GIS. Registration is a pain here for a non-production boat. I can also sail her without a licence, though I am going to study for one as I want to really get my head around the Portuguese nautical vocabulary - a bit of a nightmare when even the specialised English vocab can be a bit challenging.

Steve

You need a license to sail a boat? Weird.



In NH I actually have to register the boat (12'+), but due to its size (under 20') I don't need to put the numbers on it, the sticker is enough. It won't be much to register it. It's all kind of silly.

True about the 12ft - in many places it does drop under the radar. The PDR at 8ft does fall under the minimum size in many other places.

Best wishes
MIK