Thread: Start Building Another Dutch GIS

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Well you convinced me

The current rig is directed as much towards prettiness and consistency of method than anything else.

One of the thoughts was to keep the sail area quite large to overcome the lack of the ability to tune the sail much and reef if overpowered. So the assumption is that the sail will end up a bit flatter than a racing sailor would consider more of the time.

I suspect having the ability to shape the sail is probably not more effective than the extra 10 or 15 square feet of sail the Goat has compared to many other similar size boats.

However, I am really happy for people to play with the boat too. Looking forward to doing some vicarious learning!

When designing I was pretty confident I (with help from the builders in making nice foils) could keep her well balanced and nice to handle even when she is heeling. Thie hgh topsides (I didn't realise how high while designing ... just wanted to use up the maximum width of the ply) help too.

Best wishes
MIK

Hi MIK,

In that test sail I had with Joost, I was pretty impressed by the fact that a flat buttum skiff could heel so smootly without disturbing rudder balance. So you did a great job there!

Regards
Ralph

Howdy,

I learned that from BETH. I did a pretty crappy job of shaping that tiny rudder so it was a bit prone to stalling. But when the rudder lets go (usually from oversheeting the mizzen) the boat just goes straight even if heeled.

Wild steering is the commanding vice of wide sterned boats ... which someone has decided is the ideal feature for marketing production boats at the moment ... sigh

MIK

Ralph, Thanks. I'll be ripping out the spar halves soon and will bear in mind to keep vertical dim. larger. Currently frustrated with the Spruce I've been getting. It looks beautiful and then you open it up and pitch pockets everywhere. Very frustrating, but I remind myself that we have to work with what we've got. I am making some oars for a customer out of Sitka Spruce....that wood is heavenly to look at and work.

Clint

Another update on building;

Joost got my finished boom for testing today, but in the meantime I did a lot of construction woodwork. Most things are constructed but not sanded and rounded yet.
In general I like to do construction of several parts first and rounding/sanding all of them later.

Bulkheads are constructed, no pictures yet.

Transom is constructed, I defenitely wanted to be able to use my light 2hp Yamaha 2stroke so I need to have a cut-out ......but I have tried to make it as nice as possible with a sculling notch on the other side for some "balance" in design. Things will probably look better when rounded, to my opinion it should not look too bad when ready.

I am using very light ( both weight and color ) 5 layer Poplar plywood for bulkheads and seats/decks since I had a few sheets left from another project. Nice material, wbp quality "protected outside use" good with sufficient epoxy coating. It is a bit softer wood than Ocoume, so I will be using Ocoume for bottum and side pannels to be safe in overall strenght in those area's.

Blanks for rudder and centerboard foils are glued together. I have used simple European fir with hardwood edges. I will be using a heavy beltsander for shaping, so occasional knots are not too bad. For shaping with a handplane I would recommend red ceder without all te knots.

Ruddercase sides are constructed and will be finished at the right size when the foil is ready.
Same for the centerboard case sides.

I have attached some pictures

Just back from Holydays at Lake Garda in Italy and starting again to make more parts for my GIS.

Now my KISS oars design.
Basically a flat plywood blade sandwiched in 2 pieces of tapered wood.
I have made a similar pair of 8 foot blades last year for my Welsford Seagull rowing design with 6mm ply blades. Looks well, rows very well and they are light, but I broke one blade-tip hitting a rock and needed to repair the blades with glass

So now I am using 9mm Ocoume ply blades ( and spacers ) sandwiched between two 9 foot 18 x 45 straight fir planks tapered towards 18 x 30 at the blade end ( similar as the 8 foot ones )

At the picture you see both tapered fir planks, still fixed together to enable symetric taper. A ply blade and spacer. The other oar is just glued together.

At a later stage both oars will be further tapered, rounded and have nice round handles. I will epoxy them and wrap some glas around the area where the oarlocks are.

Did you get on the water at Lake Garda?

I started to be aware of Lake Garda as a teenager where the Centomiglia even yachts in their class "Libera" were pretty interesting. Farr designed a couple of these 40 footers with a waterline beam of about 4ft a long time ago.

Hi MIK,
I actually did not get ON the water, except some rowing with my inflatable I suffer from some shoulder pain and decided to have a VERY quiet holiday to get rid of that.
But we have driven around Lake Garda area a lot and I did see these ones racing at Sunday races close to Riva !..........I have seen some pictures of them before and it is SPECTACULAR to see them with a Bf 4-5 and 10-12 people on trapeze . There were 2 of them participating in a great field of racers. It's very nice to see so many racing boats ( over 50-70 participating ) from the coastal roads in the beautifull scenery in the north part of Lake Garda. It's hard to imagine any nicer inland water sailing spot with constant wind ( it seems ) sun and mountains around. Actually there are lots of racers around in that area; from woorden classic "skerry-cruiser" types towards 40ft carbon " open dayboats " ( as stylish and expensive only Italians can make them )

I did see several of those lug-rigged 12ft clinker dinghies, these are still quite popular in Italy too. http://www.12footdinghy.org/

In the Dutch website they have some valuable tips ( in Dutch ) and mention that Italian racers use there sails loose-footed with up to 30cm depth of the leach for their light winds.
The Dutch racers prefer to lash at the boom, have flatter sails and even consider to use a low 1st reef ( at 50cm above boom ) in stead of taking an optional crew-member in heavier winds.
For racing they use 2 sails ( flat and full one ) and sometimes 2 yards ( stiff and flexible one )

I am actually trying to contact their main Dutch Sailmaker to get their offer for a GIS sail.

Interesting stuff to see how these one-designs have optimized their classic boats and sailplan since 1914 ! Allthough they are more heavy ( Hull weight 105kg ) there are nice similarities with GIS ( 9.5 m2 sail, 1-2 people on board ) .

Next year I probably take GIS on holidays to get myself ON the water

Best Regards
Ralph

The PDR is not the only boat with a silly amount of sail!!!



MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

The PDR is not the only boat with a silly amount of sail!!!

Any amount of sail is a silly amount of sail
Rowboats forever!

Richard

are we allowed to start religious fights on this forum?

I do remember that some people do ask for a sail on the rowboat Richard.

As recently as last week.

At Duckflat.

Wednesday, Richard.

I think you are using a straw horse.

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

The PDR is not the only boat with a silly amount of sail!!!



MIK

This one is silly enough to be still raced after 95 years
How about PDR in 2080 ?

And reading this 12ft dinghy history : " The design was baptised the 'A' Class One Design Dinghy but soon became known as the BRA 12 foot class. Following a few modifications the first orders were placed. By October 1913 the members of the West Kirby Sailing Club had already taken receipt of six BRA 12 dinghies........Soon the design spread to the Netherlands where it was greeted enthusiastically. By the end of the First World War there was a fleet of 140 BRA 12 footers racing there."

In 2010 we will have 3 GIS in the Netherlands, I wonder how our Dutch GIS class association will look like 5 years later?

Haha, good point!

I think the thing that might give my boats some sort of longevity is the quality of the plans and all the methods they introduce to the builder.

The only real reason I can see for my boats dying off is if materials costs change too much or someone comes up with a super cool building method.

Anyway I do like the tone of Elegy by Arthur Guiterman

The jackals prowl, the serpents hiss
In what was once Persepolis.
Proud Babylon is but a trace
Upon the desert's dusty face.
The topless towers of Ilium
Are ashes. Judah's harp is dumb.
The fleets of Ninevah and Tyre
Are down with Davy Jones, Esquire,
And all the oligarchies, kings,
And potentates that ruled these things
Are gone! But cheer up; don't be sad;
Think what a lovely time they had!

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Haha, good point!

I think the thing that might give my boats some sort of longevity is the quality of the plans and all the methods they introduce to the builder.

The only real reason I can see for my boats dying off is if materials costs change too much or someone comes up with a super cool building method.

Anyway I do like the tone of Elegy by Arthur Guiterman

The jackals prowl, the serpents hiss
In what was once Persepolis.
Proud Babylon is but a trace
Upon the desert's dusty face.
The topless towers of Ilium
Are ashes. Judah's harp is dumb.
The fleets of Ninevah and Tyre
Are down with Davy Jones, Esquire,
And all the oligarchies, kings,
And potentates that ruled these things
Are gone! But cheer up; don't be sad;
Think what a lovely time they had!

I was tickled by this poem - loved the ending. And couldn´t resist quoting below a couple of the originals. "Quinquereme" - now that is a possible name for my GIS when I finally finish it. I might not manage most of the quoted cargo, but the "sweet white wine" is not going to be a problem. And Helen could come along for the ride......

Steve


"Was this the face that launched a thousand [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]ships[/COLOR][/COLOR],
And burnt the topless towers of Ilium?
Sweet Helen, make me immortal with a kiss.—
Her lips suck forth my soul; see where it flies!—
Come, Helen, come, give me my soul again.
Here will I dwell, for heaven be in these lips,
And all is dross that is not Helena."

Christopher Marlow

"Quinquireme of Nineveh from distant Ophir/ Rowing home to haven in sunny Palestine, / With a cargo of ivory, / And apes and peacocks,/Sandalwood, cedarwood and sweet white wine"

John Masefield

One of the things I like on this forum and the PDRacer one is the way people stick to the core discussion about boats but manage to fit in some other stuff.

There are boat forums that are too boaty and too not boaty, but this and the PDR one are a lovely balance.

MIK