Thread: Another UK GIS (Gizzle in Hants)

Hi Gizzle!

until I'm onto paining and fittings.

was "paining" intentional?

Michael

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Hi Gizzle!



was "paining" intentional?

Michael

Oops, "painting", fingers clearly not working!

Got the Port-side inwales on at the weekend and found it easiest to hold in place with some long screws from the outside and lots of clamps where some twist is required. The screwholes will all be covered up by the oak outer gunwale capping. Looks like it is going to get cold this weekend so I want to fit the starboard inwale one evening this week.

Sounds like you are going ahead in a nicely organized way.

Michael

Like some other GIS builders on the forum I have been thinking about sails, my original intention was to have a sail made but it occurred to be that I have a bunch of old and retired sails from my cruising boat sitting in the attic and I’m wondering how hard it would be to simply cut one of these up to size, add some strengthening to the edges and corners and add some brass eyes for the reefing lines etc. One benefit I can think of is that the sail would have already been built with a degree of shape built into it so I wouldn’t need to do any complicated broad-seaming.

Is this a mad idea or worth a try?

Will a reasonably standard sewing machine (with appropriate needles and thread) go though a few layers of Dacron? I expect the old sails I have are circa 6.5-7oz U.S Dacron, that is about 275gsm to 300gsm.

The only issue I can think of would be that I could end up with a sail that is too full if the old material is a bit stretched. That and it may look like a dogs-dinner as I havn't touched a sewing machine since I had a play with my mom's as a child.

Intriguing! Are your old sails large enough that the GIS Lug can come from it "whole cloth" so-to-speak? If that's the approach, then I imagine it current state of stretch might be of concern. However, if you chop up the old sail to pull various panels from it (to create Frankensail?) you might be able to compensate for whatever bagginess there is.

6.5-7.0 oz. would have overloaded my own home sewing machine where the layers of cloth start to add up. There are places along the edge where my sail has eight layers and in the corners where two edge tapes intersect there are ten. I just got by sewing through 4.0 oz. cloth by using the smallest needle I dared.

I say the idea is not madness. Callsign222 encountered a sailor last year in a nice two-masted boat (Core Sound maybe?) whose sails were recycled, the old registration numbers evident but clearly cut through or at odd angles. It's green chic!

Hi, Yes, I think if I use an old No 2 genoa it will be big enough in one piece (it's about 300sq ft). Having thought about it since I posted I recall having a bi-radial cut Genoa made from some really nice and soft Hood fabric. I did sell a few sails but hope this one is still around as it will be much easier to sew. I was thinking of turning it into a nautical sunshade for the garden but a GIS sail is much more interesting!

The only thing that is concerning is you struggled to sew through 4oz cloth. I’m thinking that I may buying an old Singer sewing machine from ebay (hope the wife isn't reading this), hopefully these old hand-crank machines would be up to the job?

My sail is a SailRite kit sail built with 4 oz. Dacron. I used my sister's early '70s vintage Singer Genie machine with a #16 needle. Once I figured things out the machine handled the sewing beautifully. Didn't break or bend a needle and sewed through the (max) 10 layers without hesitation. Don't know if it would perform as well on 7 oz. cloth. I will probably order 5 oz. Dacron for my Pathfinder sails and I will start, at least, with this machine.

Here's a photo of the machine. No guess-work needed to figure out its vintage!

Howdy,

Wow ... another exciting discussion.

The biggest drawback with cutting down bigger sails is that the cloth might be too heavy for such a little boat or that it is hard to calculate how much broadseaming is in there.

You can spot broadseaming by laying the sail flat on the floor. If there are heaps of wrinkles from built in shape then that is the evidence of broadseaming.

Broadseaming is always close to the front of the sail. There is less in the top of the sail and it increases towards the boom. Usually it is less than half the length of the boom and by the time you get about halfway up the sail it is pretty well gone.

Another problem might be picking up construction features from the old sail that will clutter up the new one. But then ... it is cheap. But recut sails often look pretty low grade - like the person doesn't care about the boat. So do a good job of following the shape I can provide so it looks like a goat!

Main things to think about
1/ the leach (back edge) of the GIS sail has to be parallel with the leach of the old sail.
2/ I would use the outline I have worked out for the Goat sail even though it was an unbroadseamed shape. I am not sure if that sail will be a little full or a little flat when set ... it will be a bit trial and error.
3/ Method would be to draw the straight lines of the sail outline on the old sail and then do the curves from there.

Hope this helps a little.

Probably my biggest concern is using too heavy cloth which will kill the boat performance in light and maybe medium wind and when running downwind.

Best wishes
Michael

The biggest influence on how the boat looks and performs on the water is the quality of the sail. If it's a matter of (a) getting on the water in the coming summer with a recut genoa or (b) not getting on the water at all the coming summer, I'd go with option (a)

But, I think with option (a), you'd likely put in a lot of effort and be fairly quickly dissatisfied with the result. You might come to a complete halt if your sewing machine can't handle the 7 oz cloth. (Remember you have to sew through multiple thickness of the sail material for the corner reinforcing patches)

A good option on the do it yourself side of things would be to buy a Sailrite kit. They list a GIS sail kit for US$345. You'd have nice new sailcloth, all the bits and pieces you need and the panel shapes already done, with a bit of care you'd have a sail you'd made yourself that you'd be proud of for years to come.

Another option is one from Duckworks, it looks like they can do a GIS sail with a couple of reefpoints for a little over US$500.

Ian

I am not recommending the sail from Duckworks. It is adequate to get you out on the water quickly. But you'll end up replacing it fairly soon if you want good performance. See my post on page 7 of "GIS Sail Tweaking".

There was a lot to be said for Brian Pearson's method of sourcing sails for the now defunct RAID41.

He bought the cloth as a cut length off the roll on ebay. Then used a set of offsets I worked out. The same method as the Goat sail design I have with no broadseaming.

The sails looked pretty nice.

Michael

Thanks all for your comments and thoughts.

My current thinking is that I can buy an old Singer sewing machine for maybe £30, I’ll need some additional bits and bobs (strong needles, thread, double-sided tape, etc) but I could end up with an reasonable sail for around £100 and have the pleasure of knowing I made it (or at least bodged it together).

I realise that it’s not going to be as good as a professional made sail but will probably be good-enough to get me on the water for the first season and I can then choose to buy a “good” sail moving forwards.

That’s the logic anyway, a cheap homemade sail that will get me on the water.

This is all assuming I still have the old sail I am thinking of cutting up. If I can’t find it then the plan is scuppered because I think the other old sails I have are probably made from material that is too stiff or thick.

Lots of support for that idea here. It is part of the underlying philosophy to demystify technical processes.

They are pretty simple when it comes down to it!

Michael

Lots of support for that idea here. It is part of the underlying philosophy to demystify technical processes.

They are pretty simple when it comes down to it!

Most regular sailing people are so scared off by sailmaker's technical talk that they won't even consider trying. But making sails is relatively cheap so you can make up to four or maybe ten sails for the same price as a manufactured one.

Michael