Thread: Wood Selection in USA for a GIS

The above wood characteristics did not 'print' the way I had laid out the comments.

Those are specific gravity followed by shear resistance (in psi) and compression (in psi).

I used regular construction grade 2- bys for the framing on mine. It was carefully selected to provide clear lengths which I cut myself. I believe much of the lumber was graded SPF, spruce or pine or fir, and it was fairly light weight. I used a small amount of southern yellow pine for the outer gunwale, where MIK calls for hardwood. I would not use SYP for framing due to its weight and poor finish quality.

When I was buying framing lumber I found the stuff at Lowe's was much better quality than the stuff at Home Depot. YMMV.

If you can track down my building thread and locate the pictures I posted of the foils you will see a huge difference in lumber quality. The centerboard used material I got from Home Depot and the rudder was from the same grade of lumber purchased from Lowe's.

Sorry, my mind is a sieve. I couldn't find the picture of the foils on here or in my hard drive but I did locate the pic on the thread about building the GIS on the WoodenBoat forum:



That thread is here if you're interested: http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85690

Rick -

I am no expert re wood - or much anything else - but I am using WRC purchased locally (locally to me is Sacramento). I am pretty sure this is Western Red Cedar grown here in the United States. Based on comments from MIk and others when I was shopping for my lumber, I don't believe there is any problem with using domestic WRC. I've used it for the foils, framing, and tiller. Here's the best closeup picture I have (doesn't really show much detail) showing the rudder before glue-up. The white piece is ash.



I bought 5/4 x 6" x 6' and 5/4 x 12" x 6' planks of WRC and, with help from a friend with a better shop than mine, milled the planks to the various sizes called for in the BOM. Those planks were almost too pretty to cut into.

I thought about using this WRC for the inwales and gunwales but have been swayed by arguments favoring DF for those applications.

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't go looking for Australian WRC unless your lumber yard already carries it.

Good luck.

Found a couple of pictures I was looking for when I posted my previous reply.

Just for fun, here's a "before" shot of the WRC planks:



And here is the same lumber after being milled:

The key word is Western...

The only WRC I've found around here is really sorry stuff sold for fences. It's a shy 3/4" thick and rough-sawn so when surfaced you're lucky to net 1/2 inch.

If concerned about the weight of the construction grade pines (SPF's) which will be lighter then the stuff marked SYP, then use yellow poplar (if you can find some, but it must be yellow or tulip poplar), Spanish cedar, or possible Alaskan cedar (if you can find it). Western cedar will also work if it's clear and fairly dense (as cedars go). Douglas fir will work well also and is readily available (even at Lowe's).

There are a number of choices available to you, but just not that many at Lowe's or the other "big box" stores.

Yes, sitka is priced quite high, but also a thick wide and long piece, such as the one you've priced (8/4thx8) is going to be more costly then a 4/4thx4. White pine is an economical choice, black pine, if you can find some is a great choice, both as replacements for spar stock. Seafarer has a nice selection (full retail pricing) of hardwoods (no softwoods if memory serves me), you may want to contact specialty wood suppliers for wholesale pricing.

Have you tried Hardwood trim, woodworking hand tools, and more - Constantines.com also look in Woodfinder :: Find Sources for Hardwood Lumber, Exotic Wood, Veneer, Sawmill Services and Other Woods such as Tonewoods, Recycled Lumber& Salvaged Wood, Carving Stock and Turning Blanks.

A quick search turned up:

Shell Lumber & Hardware Miami FL (7 miles from 33010)
Foreverwood, Inc. Miami FL (21 miles from 33010)
Constantine's Wood Center of Florida, Inc. Ft. Lauderdale FL (26 miles from 33010)
Urban Forest Recycling Tavernier FL (67 miles from 33010)
Alva Hardwoods LaBelle FL (93 miles from 33010)
Hardwood Lumber & Millwork Lakeland FL (178 miles from 33010)

Thanks for the comments and recommendations. Bob, I wasn't considering actually trying to source Aussie WRC - I was just curious how it's properties compared to SYP and our domestic WRC. Paul, I appreciate the supplier search - I will be checking Lowes (Home Depot certainly carries inferior grade lumber!!), and the suppliers you mentioned. White Spruce appears to be a viable spar alternative as well - especially for the hollow box mast. I will let you know what I find. Saludos from Miami. Rick

Thanks everyone for you guidance and input ... I spent the day driving back to Sydney.

I think the only thing I need to clear up is that the WRC is YOUR WRC ... our two main boatbuilding woods up until about 10 years ago were Douglas Fir and WRC which were imported in huge quantities for the housing market.

Now we hardly see them at all so we have had to swap species. Thanks to PAR specially as he has zoomed in straight on track and pointed out some local low density timbers that I did not know about - or did not know about well!

MIK

One good tidbit to add is that Cypress is wonderful, wonderful wood to work and is highly decay resistant and nearly as strong as Doug Fir without the weight. Most importantly, it is totally local dude! (for you guys, not for me...I still use it as the alt. to DF). I'll use it for chine logs, frames and maybe in the gunwales of my Goat, but will more likely use Spruce for gunwales. Northern White Spruce should be attainable down there. If anything has knots you can always get a large plug cutter and drill and plug the knots, easy and quick to do and you hardly see the plugs in the finished product.

I try to follow the rule of thumb that Joel White advocated for, sticking to two to three wood species in a small boat, keeping it simple to order and visually pleasing. Of course, White was a master at simple style and visually beautiful boats.

I'd say check out Cypress and let us know what it is $ per BF, I'd be curious to know how it compare to my price. I pay ~ 3.50 BF, IIRC.

Cheers,
Clint

Clint, I will check out the local Cypress situation and advise. What wood are you using for your mast? Type of mast? I am planning on the simple approach - a hollow box stave mast - possibly using White Spruce. Unless I come across someone who has some 'old sitka' they need to get rid of.

Clint, Seafarer Marine in Fort Lauderdale, Fl has cypress 2" * 6" (nets out to 1.5" * 5.5") for $3.75 / lineal foot. Can get lengths up to 18 feet.

I can't believe I forgot about cypress! I didn't use any on the GIS but it's the main solid stock I am using in the boat I'm currently building, a Simmons Sea Skiff. Light weight and easy to work...not nearly as prone to fill your hands with splinters as Douglas fir.

As for rot resistance, cypress got its reputation back when they were harvesting old growth stuff from deep in the swamps of the southeast. The newer stuff may be more rot resistant than, say, cheap spruce or pine, but it's not bulletproof like teak or the old growth stuff. But as MIK has pointed out, rot resistance is not the most important factor when the material is going to be epoxy sealed.

I bought 5/4 boards in the rough from a friend in the cabinet business. They were 6 inches by 14 feet and he sold them to me for $20 each.

Originally Posted by MiddleAgesMan

I can't believe I forgot about cypress!

As for rot resistance, cypress got its reputation back when they were harvesting old growth stuff from deep in the swamps of the southeast.

But as MIK has pointed out, rot resistance is not the most important factor when the material is going to be epoxy sealed.

I bought 5/4 boards in the rough from a friend in the cabinet business. They were 6 inches by 14 feet and he sold them to me for $20 each.

Cypress gets forgotten about a lot...I think it's bad wrap in boat building came about because it apparently absorbs gads of water and can make a boat very heavy, not an issue in our boats.

RE: rot resistance...I am still very skeptical about encapsulating in epoxy and very skeptical about NOT doing it, too. So, I still go for rot resistance because if water does get through the epoxy barrier, through damage or abrasion or whatever, I'd rather have a wood under that skin that won't break down over time. That's my 2 cents...

I here that after big hurricanes Cypress can be found REAL cheap!

Cheers,
Clint