I don't think we'll ever know where it came from!

**Island Ape** · 16th May 2001, 03:32 AM

In the Battle of Agincourt, the French, who were overwhelmingly favored to win the battle, threatened to cut off a certain body part of the all captured English soldiers so that they could never fight again. The English won the battle in a major upset and waved the body part in question at the French in defiance.

Question: What was this body part?

ANSWER:

The body part which the French proposed to cut off of the English after defeating them was, of course, the middle finger. Without the middle finger, it is impossible to draw the renowned English longbow. This famous weapon wasmade of the native English Yew tree. The act of drawing the longbow, therefore, was known as "plucking yew". Thus, when the victorious English waved their middle fingers at the defeated French,they said, "See, we can still pluck yew!"

Over the years some "folk etymologies" have grown up around this symbolic gesture. Since "pluck yew" is rather difficult to say, like "pleasant mother pheasant plucker", which is who you had to go to for the feathers used on the arrows, the difficult consonant cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodental fricative "F". Thus, the words often used in conjunction with the one-finger salute are mistakenly thought to have something to do with an intimate encounter. It is also because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows that the symbolic gesture is known as "giving the bird".

**JackoH** · 16th May 2001, 06:28 PM

I.A.
Don't wish to contradict you, but for the sake of all our readers out there I feel I must correct an inaccuracy (this has been verified by an archer friend of mine who in actual fact is a current seniors champion at the sport.)
The frogs actually cut off the first(index) and second fingers of any english archers they captured. These two fingers are the important ones when you play bow and arrows.
Thus began the famous "two fingered salute" which the English gave to their french enemies (and which has since become pretty universal) to show that they were still complete and able to fight.

As for some of those words in the last paragraph,I think ought take a long hard look and maybe get out the blue pencil!!

Keep the jokes coming!
John H.

**RETIRED** · 17th May 2001, 12:47 AM

Gooday. I have no trouble with the 2nd paragraph.

Not to upset Island Apet the joke came from here:http://www.st-andrews-scots.org/mainhall/mharticle6.html

I then checked out the definition of the terms used and got this.

If you lot can understand this then you are better than me

LINGUIST List 5.175
Thu 17 Feb 1994
Sum: Nasals
Editor for this issue: <mailto:>

Directory
1. Nick Reid, Sum: Labiodental nasals

Message 1: Sum: Labiodental nasals
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 11:52:05 Sum: Labiodental nasals
From: Nick Reid <[email protected]>
Subject: Sum: Labiodental nasals

I had so many responses to my query about (firstly uvular nasals and then)
labiodental nasals, that I figure it's easier to post a summary than reply
to all individually. I was trying to find a sample word from a language
that has a phonemic labiodental nasal, ideally one that occurred say
intervocalically and maybe even in contrast with bilabials or dentals. I
had assumed that because this sound had a distinct symbol, that there must
be a phonemic labiodental nasal out there somewhere.

It seems I was wrong. I received numerous examples from;

English
INFATUATION (English casual speech) `infatuation'.

Spanish
EMFASIS (Spanish), `emphasis'

Xhosa & Zulu
imfene `baboon'
imvubu `hippopotamus'

Italian:
anfora 'amphora'

Swedish
enveten 'stubborn'
anfall 'attack'
and several other languages, all involving homorganic nasal fricative
clusters.
Geoff Pullum informed me that "Althought the IPA created a special symbol
just in case, it is common knowledge among phoneticians that this was a
policy mistake. No language has ever been found that has a phonemic
labiodental nasal."
I guess you all knew this too huh?
thanks for all the responses

cheers

Nick

------------------
Ian () Robertson
"We do good turns every day"

[This message has been edited by (edited 16 May 2001).]

**Island Ape** · 17th May 2001, 06:12 PM

Webster's: I quote;

One entry found for labiodental.
Main Entry: la·bio·den·tal
Pronunciation: "lA-bE-O-'den-t&l
Function: adjective
Date: 1669
: uttered with the participation of the lip and teeth <the labiodental sounds \f\ and \v\>
- labiodental noun

One entry found for fricative.

Main Entry: fric·a·tive
Pronunciation: 'fri-k&-tiv
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin fricatus, past participle of fricare
Date: 1863
: a consonant characterized by frictional passage of the expired breath through a narrowing at some point in the vocal tract
- fricative adjective

**Iain** · 17th May 2001, 07:00 PM

Is sibilant similar but less confusing?
Not that I wish to get cross and into a quarrel (archery joke).

**Island Ape** · 17th May 2001, 11:56 PM

sibilant: sounds like S**t to me!

**Iain** · 18th May 2001, 08:31 AM

Must be your acquired German accent

**Island Ape** · 18th May 2001, 06:02 PM

Hi Iain
There is method in my madness!
I quote again Websters;
Main Entry: 1 sib·i·lant
Pronunciation: 'si-b&-l&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin sibilant-, sibilans, present participle of sibilare to hiss, whistle, of imitative origin
Date: 1669
: having, containing, or producing the sound of or a sound resembling that of the s or the sh in <a sibilant affricate> <a sibilant snake>
- sib·i·lant·ly adverb

**Iain** · 18th May 2001, 06:57 PM

The sibilant was with reference to being
uttered with the participation of the lip and teeth <the labiodental sounds \f\ and \v\>, to wit, SHHHH in the proverbial, the rest was just a bit of fun

**JackoH** · 19th May 2001, 06:01 PM

Have you all gone completely mad!!!!!!!
John H.

**Iain** · 19th May 2001, 06:03 PM

More than likely John, but then , isn't that a prerequisite for this forum?

**Craig Euler** · 27th May 2001, 12:48 PM

Hey? Have you noticed the different species of "Bird" seen around the world. Some bent at the wrist, some bend at the fingers, some curl the fingers, some use all five fingers, some don't use any fingers at all. Now before anyone gives me a serve, I'll just quietly click on this little icon down her.........

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