Thread: It's A New World Out There

They would be funny if it wasn't so damn true....

I disagree, times have indeed changed
This sort of stuff is no joke but a cheaply veiled shot at the LBGTQI community.
Some of the claims are patently false and some are straight up derogatory - best left out of these forums, and best we leave these folks alone.

My dad is from Ireland. Back in the day he got lots of Irish jokes, the kind that make him out to be a bit dim, not so smart. He laughed along but they were offensive. These days, people don't tell those jokes so much. Not that they can't tell them, just that they are a bit more respectful, realise they are offensive and decide not to.

If you don't understand what it's like not to be clearly male or female, straight or gay, then that's not too surprising. You might also not understand what it's like to be tall, sort, liberal, socialist, vegan, a metalworker or whatever. But understand that they are real things that other people experience, not pretend.

Showing respect to other people doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

Steve

My SINCEREST apologies to anyone that this may have offended.
It was not meant to be funny or offensive, but a look at the way life is portrayed in the 2020's from someone born in the middle of last century.
Kryn

Making out people different to ourselves as stupid is a common misconception.

An interesting example was Alan Turing - if you don't know who he was, look him up. As a gay man who was arrested for his sexuality he was given a choice of chemical castration versus jail and he decided on the former which destroyed his creative streak and not long afterwards he committed suicide.

I've run across a few of these people in my professional life, not all were my cup of tea personality wise but they were clearly intellectually equivalent or better than their peers.

I am reminded of my experience as the son of Italian migrants in the 60s in small country towns. Stupid wogs, dumb dings, garlic munchers and worse were common descriptors in the play ground or open street - not a big deal for me as I usually gave as much as I got and my school marks had me close to the top of classes (then I'd get hammered for being a "girlie swat"), but some of the other migrant kids did not find it easy. In certain situations we survived by keeping quiet and even denouncing our backgrounds. These days my son proudly flaunts his Italian Heritage and his mates are really impressed by his Italian cooking.

He cooks Italians???!!!

Originally Posted by rustynail

He cooks Italians???!!!

Yes given the opportunity he will roast his cousins.

The tragedy of the items in the first post is that they stir up so many personal feelings. It seems we all recall incidents that hurt us, or for which we are ashamed for past events. I grew up in a world of bigotry and persecution (Jewish and living with Apartheid). I hope I learned from my experiences and am a better person for this.

I admit to a rueful smile initially on reading the items in the post. This was replaced with a serious frown. The thing is that I see more below the surface - not simply the literalness of the comments - because that is my professional job. In particular, I applaud that society has become sensitive to the feelings of those growing up with a sense of identity confusion. In my childhood, this would have been suppressed and created guilt and other emotional issues. But I remain concerned that all this is taken too literally, and see/experience so many of our anxious and confused youth being vulnerable to peer pressure, with the support of adult social groups, rather than receiving appropriate professional support with deeper insights. There is no black and white here, only shades of grey.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by BobL

Making out people different to ourselves as stupid is a common misconception.

An interesting example was Alan Turing - if you don't know who he was, look him up. As a gay man who was arrested for his sexuality he was given a choice of chemical castration versus jail and he decided on the former which destroyed his creative streak and not long afterwards he committed suicide.

I've run across a few of these people in my professional life, not all were my cup of tea personality wise but they were clearly intellectually equivalent or better than their peers.

I am reminded of my experience as the son of Italian migrants in the 60s in small country towns. Stupid wogs, dumb dings, garlic munchers and worse were common descriptors in the play ground or open street - not a big deal for me as I usually gave as much as I got and my school marks had me close to the top of classes (then I'd get hammered for being a "girlie swat"), but some of the other migrant kids did not find it easy. In certain situations we survived by keeping quiet and even denouncing our backgrounds. These days my son proudly flaunts his Italian Heritage and his mates are really impressed by his Italian cooking.

Absolutely agree Bob

I surpose it is a human failing to ally ourselves with groups to gain "strength" or other status and decrying smaller or isolated groups. Most of us have done this in some way, particularly if you grew up in the middle of the last century. However, it doesn't make it right and we should by now have modified our attitude towards minority groups. Perhaps the greatest realisation occurs when we are brought into close proximity to such groups through family and close friends. We should also remember that these groups as part of humanity are also not perfect and just like us prone to human failings.

If Forum members have not seen The Imitation Game starring Benedict Cumberbatch and his portrayal of Alan Turing (Bob highlighted the man above) I would recommend it. Trailer below.

The Imitation Game (2014) - IMDb

It is many things including disgraceful (the attitude of the day, not the man), challenging and oh so sad.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by derekcohen

The tragedy of the items in the first post is that they stir up so many personal feelings. It seems we all recall incidents that hurt us, or for which we are ashamed for past events. I grew up in a world of bigotry and persecution (Jewish and living with Apartheid). I hope I learned from my experiences and am a better person for this.

I admit to a rueful smile initially on reading the items in the post. This was replaced with a serious frown. The thing is that I see more below the surface - not simply the literalness of the comments - because that is my professional job. In particular, I applaud that society has become sensitive to the feelings of those growing up with a sense of identity confusion. In my childhood, this would have been suppressed and created guilt and other emotional issues. But I remain concerned that all this is taken too literally, and see/experience so many of our anxious and confused youth being vulnerable to peer pressure, with the support of adult social groups, rather than receiving appropriate professional support with deeper insights. There is no black and white here, only shades of grey.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek

I can imagine the situation your found yourself in growing up.

The world evolves: Sometimes it is for the better: Sometimes it is stuck in the groove.

Take the left hand syndrome, for example. It was seen as evil. For a hundreds of years it was death sentence and up until WW2 people were discouraged from being left handed. Today it is not an issue.

The latin word for the left hand is "sinistra". We derive our English word "sinister" from it.

Hopefully derogatory comments intended to diminish people's status will fade, but it is likely there will always be something.

Regards
Paul

I'm 60 years old, white, cisgender, and heterosexual; and mildly expert on being me. I know nothing about being you (meaning; whomever is reading this).

My view is other people have a better handle on understanding themselves than anybody else. Myself included.

To quote one of the greatest speeches in the English language:

"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." -- Martin Luther King Jr, August 28th, 1963

Today we are divided on many different spectra than the melanin content of our skin. We don't need to be divided. We have a shared humanity. Empathy and compassion are not weaknesses. They are super powers.

The single best piece of advice I have ever been given in my entire life was about the actions of other people. It was: "Assume good intent".

This advice was given to me when I was in my twenties by a very senior US colleague who went on to be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company; and who happened to be a very nice man.

I was making a [rhymes with] ash-hole of myself (in my considered view) about some US colleagues. He made me stop and think about my assumptions.

Sorry this rambled a bit. I'm not judging others about their views on this. I was once there myself.

Offence is always taken and rarely given.

One of the really good things about Australia is we take the out of everyone. Laugh at yourself.

We have become world experts at pandering to all of the various little groups and not daring to offend them.

Get a grip people.

I had a whole heap of crap on me because of my background, my attitude was stuff them. Prove them wrong.

Give a good example, do good and help the young along. It's their world.

We are up against a world that wants to eat our lunch. We waste time on crap.

Finally, this is the woodwork forum, not the ABC.

Originally Posted by Tomislav

Offence is always taken and rarely given.

That is one point of view. Having witnessed racism by proxy through my adopted children, I truly do not think that is true.

Originally Posted by Tomislav

We have become world experts at pandering to all of the various little groups and not daring to offend them.

Being sensitive to other people (actual meaning of the derogative terms "wokeness" and "politically correct") is just rule number one for being a human being: Don't be a jerk. More accurately; try not to be a jerk while understanding that people make mistakes. Myself included.

Originally Posted by Tomislav

Give a good example, do good and help the young along. It's their world.

100%

Originally Posted by Tomislav

We are up against a world that wants to eat our lunch. We waste time on crap.

It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Originally Posted by Tomislav

Finally, this is the woodwork forum, not the ABC.

This was posted in the joke section. The original post was polemic, not humour.

This is a teachable moment, but I'm aware that not everybody is ready to learn at the same time.

As I said earlier, I'm not judging. I have held similar views in the past.

I wish everyone well. Thank you for considering my post.

I forget who said the following but it's something I try to remember every day. The quality of a society can be judged by how well it deals with it's most marginalised and defenceless persons no matter how small a minority they represent or how different their views are from ours. I think we're improving (remember when the disabled, the neurodivergent, and even so called hysterical women were all sent to lunatic asylums) but I think we still have some ways to go.