Thread: CNC Gantry Router #A

Jesus I need a cold shower after seeing that but now the wife understands why I need a workshop and a JOB lol

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCHallOfFame3.html =

I need am off for a cold shower after that

Those are gorgeous shops Rod!

Old machines are interesting. Machinists and Toolmakers by religion will never say a machine is bad. They always say a machine is good. I was on a Hafco Lathe not that long ago which was meant to be good, well it wasn't horrible but was out of level so didn't turn that parallel and putting a long boring bar on it as required you could see the bar dive 5mm at the start of a cut. Dodgy electricity in that place meant that you could only get 2 mm depth of cut in 4140 which is regarded as a free machining high alloy steel. 2.5 mm cuts worked unless someone turned on a grinder or anything then the machine threatened to stall!

Go figure. The old flat bed lathes are good within limits but are not a spot on the newer slant bed lathes which are box way as well.

Box ways v Linear ways is a standing argument. Some think that box ways are better but they take more power to drive. This can cause flexing in ball screws causing inaccuracy. High end Vertical machining centres usually combine both. Linear ways for the table and box ways for the column, that is choosing what suits the application better.

Anyway talking old iron I think it comes down to what bit of old iron you have. The Yanks are big on South Bend, LeBlond, and Monarch which all hark back to the days when the US had the biggest machine tool industry in the world. For many years now the Japanese have been bigger. I think they have 55% or 60% of the world market now. There are many really old manual first rate Japanese machines. If you come across one be prepared to consider it. The Big Three, Mori Seiki, Mazak (Yamazaki), and Okuma. Then there is a long list of other first rate Japanese Machines. Makino, Hitachi, Hidekai, Nakamura plus another 10 or 20. My experience is only with Manual Mori Seiki's and Mazaks. They were brilliant machines even when they were very old. I have run Okuma's and Hidekai's but they were CNC machines and top machines. One thing to be careful with the Hidekai's is that they went bust and were bought by Shanghai Electric in China! That one surprised me as Hikekai did make some weapons grade machines but there you go. Hitachi's machine tool section has been bought by Mori Seiki who basically kept it and rebadged them as cheap Mori Seiki's. The Hitachi's were good without being at that rarefied level Mori is in.

Another one that has come up with stuff that impresses people is Daewoo! Believe it or not. They have shown themselves to be a first rate manufacturer, so if you happen to find one around the place give it a good once over it might be a really good thing.

Studley

Sean,
They are not real - no swarf, no sawdust and nothing hanging from the rafters.
Some of those guys must have a lot of spare cash but I suppose it is much cheaper in USA.
Bones (RP of RPM fame) is over there for three months with work and been buying up while he is there. Like to see him throw a lathe over his shoulder and board the plane back. Mind you if he is flying Quantas it might anchor him so he doesn't bump his head mid flight.

Studley,
Yeah I look at that site every now and again to remind myself of how my shed should look - never going to happen.
I have a Hafco 12 by 36 and a 9 by 20 (for future CNC conversion) and I really enjoy using them. I am relatively new to metal machining and self taught so my skills are low but they give me a buzz.
Interesting history about the shift of manufacturing around the world. Maybe China or India will eventually take over like the Japanese did from America. Perhaps not as the operator cost verses machine cost have changed considerably since CNC so chasing cheap labour may not be the issue anymore. Better to pay for highly skilled workers so as not to damage their machine investment.
I hope Australia still keeps manufacturing and we retain the trade skills here.

Hello Rod

So, is milk a preventive for welding gal'? I can understand your reluctance, now you have made me a bit worried for the next 8 or so hours, I finished a welding table this afternoon, mostly made from 75 SHS 4mm wall section ( gal'd ).

The " problem " in welding is we put our heads in the fumes, the idea with the trion mask was drawing air from behind you at or below the normal welding height, might be a chance to butcher a perfectly good mask and bodge something up.

Ed

Ed,

From memory I first noticed a sweet taste then felt really nausiated. It then turns to a flu like sympton - feeling cold but running a high temperature and aching all over. I got a really bad dose as I was welding in a closed shed - did not want the dog to get a flash and was ignorant to this many years ago. I was crook for about two to three days and haven't welded the stuff since.

Sounds like you should be right doing it outdooors and smart thinking about drawing air away from the fumes with the Triton.

I have heard the milk cure as well but not sure if it works. Fumes go in lungs and milk goes in guts so how does it neutralise the zinc? Might be one of those placebos invented by a supervisor to keep the crew working.

I got this one for when welding gal



Looks like the above one. You cant smell anything so I guess it works . But you need to get the proper filter, I just grabbed mine at BOC gases when I got the bottle of Argon Light. Around $70 I think, but it sure beats those cheap ???? masks (I use this one for painting also even thou its not made for it it still absorbs the vapors)

*L* trust me to pick that brand hey Rod? Bit of love and attention would make all the difference to that one I was on. Mind you I was using a big 50mm boring bar and knocking it into what was going to be a biggish hydraulic cylinder. It did need some maintenance. Had lost a couple of gears because of using a "snap tap" to cut threads. You just run the tool along at the end the snap tap pulls the tool out of the job and you slam it in reverse to get back to the start. Naturally the shear pins in the gearbox didn't like this and eventually gave it away. There was no chasing dial on that machine. Seems absurd but there you go. I think it was a typical business thing. Makers sell machines with great sticker prices plus options. That way they can promote a really great price. Then you pay for all the add ons, like chasing dials tool holders and so on. Management looks at the sticker and doesn't think about things like chasing dials as they think they can get away with it, not knowing better. This practise still continues, Mazak is known for it think of anything that isn't a basic part of the machine. So chip conveyors for one, tool holders, Q setters, attachments for a bar feed and so on.

Anyway any tips or questions just ask, I am happy to help.

Studley

Yep I have been using a respirator as well when welding anything, bit of a pain but once you get used to it they are ok, I wore one every day for about an hour when working with Ammonia Jesus thats bad stuff when it ain't watered down. I was given a new respirator every 6 months changed the filters every week.

One thing I learned from my boss was to suck on a couple of ice cubes in hot weather when you have it on seems to make it more comfortable sounds stupid but worked for me but didn't for other guys I worked with all they did was complain about them but we only have one set of lungs.

Also if your going to shave do it the day before otherwise the rash really sux and clean them regularly as things like to grow in the warm moist conditions.

I thought the milk was to get rid of the sore throat and taste? but it still worries me as as then your ingesting the crap cant be good for you at all.

Originally Posted by WillyInBris

I thought the milk was to get rid of the sore throat and taste? but it still worries me as as then your ingesting the crap cant be good for you at all.

Milks to settle the stomach. ?

Hi Studley,
No offence taken at all about the Hafco. I am realistic it is made in China and built to a price. Come to think of it I should start blaming the lathe and not me.
Actually I find lathe and mill work fascinating after doing hobby woodwork for thirty odd years. It has changed the way I do things now and a digital vernier is always closer to me than a steel rule or tape.
Last night I was wrapped because I used a parting off tool successfully for the first time. My first attempt a couple plus years ago was distrastous and ended up with the parting tool jammed under the job. I am pleased I got it to work as it is one of those things you have to do on some jobs. I was making nuts for a ballscrew out of hex bar and needed square faces both sides.
By the way one of my prize possessions is an Adept hand shaper. I said I like old iron.

Sean,
Ice cubes definately work but you have to use Burbone as a lubricant - Jack told me that

On a serious note preventing any industrial fumes from getting into your body is the best way and this is one thing I listen to the advise. Masks are cheap compared to the cost it vould have.

Ed if you are not aware then stay away from welding anything gold plated - cadmium. It contains really nasty stuff much more dangerous than galvo.

Geeze I have been serious so I better go lighten up and have some ice cubes. Been handling galvo so that is my excuse.

Good One Rod. Parting tools can be tricky to learn. Be sure to set them square and a smidge above centre height.

With machines there is the saying a good tradesman never blames his tools. There is some truth to it as a good tradesman looks after his tools. BUT even a genius cannot get them to be better than they are.

I have run machines and gone wow it is so easy to hit a size on this, others you bent over backwards and struggled to get a part out to spec, so we do depend on our machines being up to it for sure.

Another thing is the standard of the steel you use. 1012 for instance never seems to machine that well, then they give you some 1040 and you get great parts excellent finish and so on. Then of course every machine has it's quirks.

Studley

Originally Posted by rodm

Hi Studley,
No offence taken at all about the Hafco. I am realistic it is made in China and built to a price. Come to think of it I should start blaming the lathe and not me.
Actually I find lathe and mill work fascinating after doing hobby woodwork for thirty odd years. It has changed the way I do things now and a digital vernier is always closer to me than a steel rule or tape.
Last night I was wrapped because I used a parting off tool successfully for the first time. My first attempt a couple plus years ago was distrastous and ended up with the parting tool jammed under the job. I am pleased I got it to work as it is one of those things you have to do on some jobs. I was making nuts for a ballscrew out of hex bar and needed square faces both sides.
By the way one of my prize possessions is an Adept hand shaper. I said I like old iron.

Originally Posted by Studley 2436

Another thing is the standard of the steel you use. 1012 for instance never seems to machine that well, then they give you some 1040 and you get great parts excellent finish and so on. Then of course every machine has it's quirks.

Studley

Studley,
At the risk of driving this thread way off topic - what's a good grade of steel for machining?
I recently picked up some 1214 and some 4140 rod. The 4140 is for a replacement toolpost mount stud. The 1214 is for use in a CNC router so it's not too far off topic.
Sorry Rod.