Thread: CNC router

A few thoughts come to mind immediately, the minimum 4' x 8' straight away puts you at the top end of at least the larger hobbyist machines, most of which will be self assemble with partial manufacturing of supports, spoild boards, etc. I would expect to not get much change out of around $5-7.5k for a somewhat basic setup of this size. I'd also be somewhat dubious about the performance and usability of many of the machines at this cheaper end of this size footprint.

Commercial or serious hobbyist machines like 1324's, etc, will start around $25k on average for a basic setup.

If no CAD/CAM experience, that's fine, packages like Vectric's Aspire or V-Carve although pricey, are extremely easy to get to grips with and will have you making some serious sawdust pretty quickly.

The other bits that never seem to be taken into account however are the things like cutters (these can set you back a small, or not so small fortune!), the type of spindle (or router - crap idea!) used, water cooled (my preference by far!) or air cooled (hate em, get clogged with dust easily).

Dust extraction, this aspect really needs to be carefully thought out, CNC's generate a tremendous amount of dust, most of it not good for your lungs!

There's a lot more to be taken into consideration, I would hazard you need to determine how serious you are about getting into CNC, what you expect to be making, and whether you really must have a 4' x 8' work area?

Whichever way you go, skimping on quality will cost big in the long run, my advice would be to aim for the best bang for buck that suits your anticipated purposes, but go for the best you can obtain within your means, something that doesn't require human sacrifices every second blood moon so it performs as it should!

I don't want to put you off getting into CNC, but I can tell you that if your even half serious about it, it ain't a cheap hobby by any means!

In fact it's really more of a lifestyle choice!

cheers, Ian

Hi Ian,
Thanks for taking the time to help me out. That would be around the ballpark I would like to spend. Without being offensive to anyone on this forum, I would like to buy A reliable machine that I could service easily without worrying about parts etc.
Very glad to hear there are good , user friendly software programs available. I am old school with a moderate IT understanding, to put it in perspective…I still type with one finger.
Good point raised on dust extraction, I still haven’t set that up properly. I have a CU 300 Minimax combination machine, a 6m x 2.5m slab master and various other tools I would like to plumb in as well however that is another project on its own.
I think as far as sizing is concerned, most of my work will be on live edge timber slabs and I just know that I’m going to need some room to get creative and will probably kick myself for not going bigger, but baby steps. I’m hoping once I get the hang of this, I’ll like it enough to upgrade.
Although I am retiring, I would like to make some beer money with it and heed your advice on getting the best bang for my $.
Do most of these machines have air or water cooling options?

I'm sure others will chime in Sean, but at the larger hobbyists end your likely looking at offerings similar to the following:

QueenBee CNC 1500x1500mm (Fully Assembled) | CNC3D PTY LTD

There are several other makes around very similar in style and price to the link above. That sort of machine is not my first (or 2nd or 3rd) choice ideally though, as part of what makes a CNC machine perform better is well designed mass and the type and quality of the components used, pretty much all the things lacking in most of these cheap machines. Basically the heavier the construction, the better it dampens noise and vibration, which are also an indicator of performance. Obviously the heavier machines will have much better linear guides, bearings, etc, which all contribute greatly to the end result.

I'm onto my 6th (or maybe 7th?) machine after some years, I started out with the usual 3020/3040's, 6040, etc, going up in size and weight until my last one some 12 or so years back, a 6090 I imported direct from China, very similar to the pic attached. The width is somewhat limiting, and I thought it might be a problem after some time, but it hasn't really. It's been very rare that the size caused an issue for me. Although not real big, my 6090 weighs around 300kg or so, and it can really hog out hardwood pretty fast like there's no tomorrow!

Conversely, I have also used it to do PCB's at times as the accuracy is so spot on.

The reason i'm not keen on the XCarve style machines, is that while they're sort of okay, on top of virtually no thought for dust control most times, they are pretty expensive for the really flimsy build they all seem to favour. I do hear a lot of people complaining they flex easily under load, and can't really be pushed very hard or fast. This affects performance, the depth of cut, machining time, etc, etc. Some are a better and more solid construction than others though.

Also, one other aspect I really dislike, is that on top of being expensive out of the gate, and being a very flimsy construction, almost all of them don't come standard with a spindle, instead most use a trimmer or small router which is just crap in my opinion from every aspect. The noise, the dust control, and especially the fact that trimmers and smaller routers simply aren't designed to run for hours and hours on end over multiple days!

So you hear a lot of comments from people who have these types of machines, and are onto their 3rd or 4th router in only a few years! Not very cost efficient!

For any even slightly serious CNC work, a spindle and VFD really are the only way to go. They are absurdly quiet (your neighbours will thank you!), efficient, and if you get the water cooled type (my fave!), maintenance free, and no dust being blown everywhere as with an air cooled router or spindle, and they really aren't expensive. If you have to replace just one router, then you might as well have gone the spindle/VFD route in the first place!

For dust extraction, a cyclonic unit such as the Dust Deputy is worth it's weight in gold, does a fantastic job of dumping 95-99% of the crap into a drum. I empty my extractor maybe once every few years since using a simple Dust Deputy.

Getting back to the machines themselves, don't forget most machines are open ended, so it's more the cutting width that is important, but the bigger the machine, the less well it will perform if it's one of the cheap alu extrusion knock up kits as flex increases with machine size. To my mind they're only really capable for fairly light duty machining, but if you're not in a hurry, it might do you just fine.

This forum thread from someone also dipping their toes into CNC will probably be of good use to you:

Am I on the right track?

I had looked at this one, but it sounds as if you are looking for a significant step up in performance and capability over the toys us hobbyist people have.

I did consider one myself but for the work I do the lightweight construction and limitations of the machine I have isn't a huge issue. Not as if I'm entering into production territory or need to go fast with cuts.

Heavymill CNC Router - 3DTEK | AU Shop

Originally Posted by BoneInspector

I had looked at this one, but it sounds as if you are looking for a significant step up in performance and capability over the toys us hobbyist people have.

I did consider one myself but for the work I do the lightweight construction and limitations of the machine I have isn't a huge issue. Not as if I'm entering into production territory or need to go fast with cuts.

Heavymill CNC Router - 3DTEK | AU Shop

That one is definitely a step up from the Xcarve and similar offerings!

While not as good as a cast iron frame machine, it's at least made from beefier extrusions, and with some decent reinforcing that would help improve things, it' just a better design overall. They've clearly put a little more thought into it than many of the other vendors.

With the dollar so bad it's hard to get great bang for buck now, I was very lucky when I got my machine as the AUD was peaking slightly higher than the USD at the time from memory. The machine itself was $2500AUD, compared to $25k (excluding shipping) for the exact same machine from a local supplier, who would have simply drop shipped it.

Originally Posted by Seankelly1957

I am limited to single phase but was thinking a minimum bed of 4ft x 8 ft.

If you're limited to single phase, 8' x 4' is probably not going to happen; once you get to that size you're in the industrial space and they come with big boy spindles that need big boy power and compressed air (and a 3-phase vacuum pump if you get a vacuum table).

You'll be looking at $20-30k as a starting point

Thanks Ian, sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I am out bush at the moment, a long way from home.
I rang Dave from QueenBee yesterday and have set up and appointment to see him on the Gold Coast when I get back. The work area seems a bit light on but I’ll have a look at any rate. He informed me that they do have a bigger model so I’ll check that out as well. No water cooling though.
I scrolled through the Am I on the right track threads as well, my poor tiny brain is spinning now.🤔😂 Again Ian , appreciate your support with this.

Elan is spot on.

If you go with professional weight machinery (Far better and $$$'s) then you must have 3-phase. With hobbyist gear you will be far more limitted but can get away with single phase.

About 20 years ago I was considering a 3-phase heat pump, and was quoted about $1,000 for connection to 3-phase. Five years ago I thought about 3-phase in the workshop and was quoted a connection fee of "around $50,000". Apparently the power cables in the street were at maximum capacity and the power company wanted muggins to pay for rewiring the street, not just the connection to my place!

Suggest that you check the availability and cost of 3-phase, as it may rule in or rule out a lot of options.

I think you have been getting some really good advice.

I have only used very heavy industrial CNC's owned by other people, much heavier than the 6090 that aarggh has.

The router is one of the noisiest tools in the shop, no equipment runs as continuously as a CNC machine on a large job. Put the two together and you have a very serious noise issue. Rephrased: your secound router will be a water cooled spindle - why not bypass step 1?

Originally Posted by aarggh

... If no CAD/CAM experience, that's fine ....

Here I strongly urge you to to a CAD or CAD/CAM course at a TAFE or uni - I did noe in the School of Fine Arts; the School of Architecture also ran similar courses. If you teach yourself you will probably learn bad habits!

Originally Posted by aarggh

... With the dollar so bad it's hard to get great bang for buck now, I was very lucky when I got my machine as the AUD was peaking slightly higher than the USD at the time from memory. The machine itself was $2500AUD, compared to $25k (excluding shipping) for the exact same machine from a local supplier, who would have simply drop shipped it. ....

Actually the AusDollar has increased from 57 to 77 cents US in the past year, still well below the glory days of parity 10 years ago, but it is worth doing the arithmetic.

FX Graph.jpg

It might be worth you, aarggh, giving Sean details of your supplier and experiences in dealing with them. If he is comfortable with the increased risks and the lack of local support, offset by the cash saving, then he can explore further.

I tried googling 6090 on Alibaba but got so many hits that it was confusing!